Evolution and the Catholic Church

[Thorne]

I came across this article today and was somewhat surprised:
[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080916/sc_nm/vatican_evolution_dc;_ylt=AupcXCG9Y6l.aZyRZHjztTSs 0NUE"]

Some noteworthy quotes:

The Vatican said on Tuesday the theory of evolution was compatible with the Bible but planned no posthumous apology to Charles Darwin for the cold reception it gave him 150 years ago.

No apology should be necessary. They never persecuted him or threatened him with excommunication, they way they did with Galileo. They simply declared his claims to be false, a perfectly valid opinion, even if it was eventually proven that they were wrong.

The Catholic Church teaches "theistic evolution," a stand that accepts evolution as a scientific theory and sees no reason why God could not have used a natural evolutionary process in the forming of the human species.

Or, by extension, in the forming of the universe itself. A valid point of view, though scientifically untestable, at least for now. Science can be pretty sure of much of what happened in our universe from the first millisecond after the Big Bang, but anything before that is pure speculation.

Pope Benedict discussed these issues with his former doctoral students at their annual meeting in 2006. In a speech in Paris last week, he spoke out against biblical literalism.

I was rather surprised by this, though I probably shouldn't have been. Thinking back on my Parochial education, it seems to me that they never tried to claim that the Old Testament was literally true. Perhaps there's hope for mankind yet. Though this kind of thing is going to piss off the Baptists around here!

[fetishdj]

The catholics have always been (at least at the more liberal ends) actually quite aware of real politik. The last pope was making headway with a lot of contentious issues before he died (and unfortunately undid many of them in his last year by a number of illadvised comments).

The Catholic stance on evolution is often referred to as 'The Vatican compromise' as it is just that - a compromise. Basically, we'll accept that evolution exists if you accept that god could be involved. Its kept scientists and most sensible Christians (of all denominations, not just Catholics) happy and that is a good thing.

Though I would not say that the church left Darwin unmolested (at least not verbally - physically he was fine). The Bishop of Oxford of the time was quite scathing of the theory and hotly debated it at every opportunity. Though, it must be said that Huxley (in defending Darwin) gave as good as he got (including a rather spiffing riposte to a point made by the bishop about not wanting to be related to an ape where he stated that he would rather be related to an ape than to the Bishop). Plus I think the Bishop was CofE not Catholic...

I was taught (at a Catholic school) that the bible was never meant to be taken literally - it is metaphor and allegory - and that there is no one true interpretation of any scripture. I have to admit that I see those who take the bible as literal truth (instead of the intended spiritual truth) in the same light as idiots who think soap operas are real life events...

[Thorne]

I have to admit that I see those who take the bible as literal truth (instead of the intended spiritual truth) in the same light as idiots who think soap operas are real life events...

LOL! I never thought of it quite that way, but yeah, I have to agree with you here.

Plus I think the Bishop was CofE not Catholic...

I think that's right. And elsewhere in that article they did mention that someone at the CofE did think they owed Darwin an apology. I'm not sure I'd agree if all that was involved was debate. But if they did come down on him with threats and attacks, that's a different story.

[fetishdj]

As far as I am aware of the history, it was purely debate. At least from the ordained clergy. Though from the sounds of it, it did get quite rough in the Royal Society for a while

Not sure if there was any trouble from any other elements of the church - such as the laity.

[JohnVanDom]

Catholic theology is always changing - and we admit errors sometimes occur (you know, little things like... the inquisition... the Dark Ages... black plague after killing cats etc).

Fundamentalists and pure atheists have one thing in common - the arrogance to believe they know the truth, and not just the truth for their own time and place in society, but the WHOLE and TOTAL truth that abides no dispute. With such beliefs come intolerance, genocide and sadly, the kind of greed that now threatens to destroy our very biosphere.

I'm concerned about the growth of the Christian/European ethic - as Ghandi said, "If we were to live as you do, we would consume the earth like ants." Well folks, read about Chinese and Indian economic development and tremble. 80% of the structural steel and raw cement made worldwide last year went to those places.

I'd suggest anyone who is interested in Bible truths read the Nag Hammadi (the Dead Sea Scrolls). There is a tremendous amount of Christian philosophy that was suppressed before the Bible was set into the patterns we know today. Elements calling for female equality, Christ's belief in reincarnation and the role of Christ as an example (and ordinary man wanting to lead, not be worshipped) are hugely misunderstood due to deliberate exclusion from the Bible anything that didn't support the church hierarchy and growth of church power.

With the originals destroyed, the revised Bible and illiterate population resulted in the profitable exchange of money and obedience to church officials for salvation that sadly, is the foundation of traditional Christianity to this day - Catholic and Protestant alike.