Old School what is it to you?

[icey]

i dont want to detract from the thread and especially afer ambers great post but i cant help responding to this bit

How much value does our society place on homemakers? .

tbh im amazed these days that anyone can ask this question i really really am..so much positive fuss is made about mothers staying at home to raise their kids being the homemakers etc how strong they are how amazing how much hard work it is how valuable they are etc, and although working mums get credit too they still sometims get a little criticism for choosing to work, if anything the tide seems to have changed a bit again.
and in case anyones not sure, im a stay at home mum i always have been other than for a brief period, i was a single parent for many years and i have never ever had anyone treat me any differently in any of those ''roles''.

[PropertyOfMasterJoey]

RANT

This is a bit off topic, but as a feminist, I can't seem to let it slide. Feminism is about having choices. In the good 'ol 50's all women were expected to fulfill this role regardless of temperament. It was so much so, that if a man and a woman held the same job the man was paid more. because he had a family to support. Of course that ignores the fact that some women were single, divorced or widowed and were supporting a family. Women were also often denied jobs because they would just get married and quit soon or get pregnant and quit. If a husband had a credit card it was only in his name. If he and his wife got divorced, all of the credit history for mortgages etc. were in his name only. It was and still is society that denigrates stay at home moms, depicting them as wearing fuzzy slippers with their feet up, eating bon-bons and watching soap operas. How much value does our society place on homemakers? What kind of programs are in place to make it easier for women to stay at home? What kind of retirement is place for these women or/men. The economy is now structured so that it takes two incomes to come any where near the basic lifestyle my parents had and for some of you, your grandparents. We blame all of the problems we have today with violence and health of our children on everything except the fact that they have no home. Teachers are at fault for poor achievement, not the fact that with two working parents there is no time for parents to supervise homework etc. Our children and ourselves are getting fatter because no one has time to buy and cook from scratch, so we depend on fatty, salty, packaged food and take-out. We can't stay home when sick, so kids pass germs to other kids and we pass germs to our coworkers - because we don't have enough sick days to cover both our children's illnesses and our own. What about maternity leave - 6 weeks is not enough to bond with a new baby and give it the start it needs. The European Union is looking at expanding maternity leave because the minimum of 14 weeks that women get in some countries, is not enough. So don't blame feminists - blame the priorities of the society in which you live and the legislators for making those laws.

As a feminist I am about choice. If you choose to be a stay at home mom, then you should be able to raise your family on what your husband makes and have some assurance of retirement should he die or divorce you. If you are not content staying home then you should have the same job opportunities as men have. If there were more stay at home moms, then it wouldn't be so hard on the single parents who have to work, because they would have more support and resources right in their own neighborhood.If you are a man and domestically inclined and your wife likes to work, you should not be ridiculed for being Mr. Mom.

I don't know when feminists got such a bad name, but it is about equal opportunity, about valuing women in all of their roles and seeing them as contributing members of society what ever they decide to do.

Rant over.

*I know that there are many single parents and families with two working parents who do an excellent job of caring for and raising their children. My point is that it is much harder to do this than it should be.

i don't mean femminists in general because i totally agree with the idea behind it but around here there's a particular group of them tat are constantly putting me down for my decision to move in with Master straight out of highschool and immediatly mold to the "house-wife" lifestyle (though W/we're not married yet W/we plan to one day) They say terrible things about me and some even to my face about how i'm enabling men to walk all over women (lol if they only knew He was my Master they'd burn me at the stake) or how i sould have gone to college and made something of myself, as if i'm nothing without that degree. i had the grades to go to any college i wanted to but my family just couldn't afford it. i got lucky cuz Master's family owns this big company so at least as of now W/we're able to keep up the lifestyle W/we prefer. If one day i had to take up a job i would but i want it to be my choice not because a group of women dictated my decision.

[blythe spirit]

I don't know when feminists got such a bad name, but it is about equal opportunity, about valuing women in all of their roles and seeing them as contributing members of society what ever they decide to do.

Please forgive me for interrupting this thread to answer claire's question.

Whilst I believe like all causes, feminism had it's place and brought about some needed changes meant to benefit women; in the beginning too many of the feminists were "in-your-face" radicals, who were misandrists and spoke openly of their hatred for the patriarchy. And any woman who would do a man's bidding, (i.e. 1950s household) was spoken of derogatorially and looked down upon. It was to the point, that a woman was ashamed to say she was "only" a homemaker.

And in the end, what did women really gain? They now have the right to work 8 and 12 hour days and then come home and cook, clean, do the laundry, get the kids ready for bed, etc., etc., etc. and still have the energy to feel sexy for her man. lol

I now return you to the original thread currently in progress.

[DowntownAmber]

There's a thread dedicated to the spin off this one has created. Go use it folks!

Back on topic!

[denuseri]

I just wanted to say there is nothing in the world wrong with people being nice and showing respect to one-another.

I allways take it as a compliment when a man holds a door for me etc, just as much as i appreciate proper decorum in social settings.

I am going to make an honest effort in the future to improve my own ettiqute.

Of course that doesnt mean i aint still gonna be full of spit and viniger once in a while or loose my spirit, i just plan on beuing more nice about it (winks)

[damyanti]

Let me break it down in vanilla speak:

Say you were to meet a new neighbor, and hit it off with them. You talk a few times over the fence, as you both seem to spend time in the backyard. You become friends, but have never seen their spouse as s/he tends to be at work and rarely in the yard. You know where the spouse works, however, so one day you drop in and say, "hi, I'm Amber. I've chatted a few times with your hubby over the fence and wanted to introduce myself. He's a really swell guy."

I'm missing how this is so shady?

/B][/SIZE]

I still think that if you befriend someone and you progress to the point where its natural to meet their significant other, it would be more normal to organize introduction by inviting or meeting them (as a couple) for coffee, dinner...

No, it would not be shady and I am sure you are a very nice person...but if a person I have never met before, showed up at my place of work to tell me that they enjoyed chatting with my boyfriend, I would find it weird and a bit frightening.

[DowntownAmber]

I still think that if you befriend someone and you progress to the point where its natural to meet their significant other, it would be more normal to organize introduction by inviting or meeting them (as a couple) for coffee, dinner...

No, it would not be shady and I am sure you are a very nice person...but if a person I have never met before, showed up at my place of work to tell me that they enjoyed chatting with my boyfriend, I would find it weird and a bit frightening.

Oh of course if coffee or lunch can be organized and you want all of you to be friends, sure. To me, a group meeting like that does imply that there is a desire (and possibly a bit of pressure) for all three of you to be friends. A quick note or a hello simply says, "I'm here, this is who I am," and then everyone can decide if they want to progress to "group buddies." When online, meeting as a couple tends to be a bit harder as well, so I still think a note of hello is a very nice gesture.

And please please please don't take this the wrong way, it is not meant as a jab or an insult (I'm simply not sure how to word this any onther way), but you're way more paranoid about people saying hello to you than I am I guess. J always takes the time to tell me about who he's met in the course of his day, who he's going to lunch or coffee or whatever with, so I never worry about being out of the loop. I still do appreciate, however, when these gals take time to acknowledge me. My "weird" alarm tends to start beeping when I feel ignored or avoided.

[J-Go]

I’d like to thank everyone for contributing to this post with a special thanks to damyanti for taking the opposing viewpoint (opposition makes for a much more interesting thread). Before everyone jumps over to the Feminism and BDSM thread I would like to clear a couple of issues. First off the thread is “Old School, What is it to you?” with 37 posts I’m the only one who had described what old school” means to me…so I would really like to here from some other folks who consider themselves “Old School”…what’s it mean to you?

The thread did turn into a good debate on disclosure so to that issue I wish to clarify my stand. Again let me restate my viewpoint is that of a Dom in a D/s relationship with a female partner. I think it important to be clear as to the why of my position. We are on a BDSM site that deals with sexual issues, a site like this is going to consist of some people looking for sex related relationships either online or in real life. Now I don’t know about the rest of the world but around here if you go to a car lot to look at cars you can expect someone is going to try to sell you a car. Just makes sense to me, if on a BDSM site you can expect someone at sometime is going to try to “sell” a relationship of some sort . It is from that stand point and that understanding that I take the stand of keeping a known partner in the loop. In MY definition of “Old School” I am honor bound to keep a subs Dom in the loop of any friendship that has built. Fairly simple and straight forward to me, and if I have learned nothing in my life simple and straight forward keeps me out of sticky situations. I have made several introductions via PM and have never had a negative response from a Dom.

But that’s “Old School” to ME, so damyanti should we develop a friendship, and I hope we do, I can guarantee two things 1) My sub will know and 2) if you have a Dom, I’ll be introducing myself.

[blythe spirit]

I have a question, J-Go in relation to your last statement. Whilst I think the sub should be kept in the loop, I wonder why you feel YOU should be introducing yourself to another sub's Dom? Isn't it up to the sub to keep her Dom in the "loop" as well and should she not be the one to do the introductions?

It just seems to me that if you should introduce yourself prior to the sub mentioning you to her Dom, this could cause a problem.

As far as "old school" is concerned, I did not respond as I have no idea what "old school" is other than that of the "gay" BDSM movement. So this whole thread is enlightening to me. Thanks

[PropertyOfMasterJoey]

Well, getting back on topic i'm too young to really have ever known what "old-school" is but based on how you described your opinion of it that's very much like how Master and i operate and if that is in fact old-school then i am too i suppose.

[J-Go]

I have a question, J-Go in relation to your last statement. Whilst I think the sub should be kept in the loop, I wonder why you feel YOU should be introducing yourself to another sub's Dom? Isn't it up to the sub to keep her Dom in the "loop" as well and should she not be the one to do the introductions?

It just seems to me that if you should introduce yourself prior to the sub mentioning you to her Dom, this could cause a problem.

As far as "old school" is concerned, I did not respond as I have no idea what "old school" is other than that of the "gay" BDSM movement. So this whole thread is enlightening to me. Thanks

It is up to the sub to keep the dom in the loop, and IMO if I am befriending anothers sub, as a Dom...I should have the courage, honor, fortitude whatever you wish to call it, to introduce myself. As I said before I've never had negative feedback, furthermore I always ask the sub if they have a Dom if so who is it, and that I like to introduce myelf to them.
I'm always open, if they have a reason not to be or were tell me not to contact their Dom I would respect that, however I probably would limit future contact with that sub.

[damyanti]

I’d like to thank everyone for contributing to this post with a special thanks to damyanti for taking the opposing viewpoint (opposition makes for a much more interesting thread). Before everyone jumps over to the Feminism and BDSM thread I would like to clear a couple of issues. First off the thread is “Old School, What is it to you?” with 37 posts I’m the only one who had described what old school” means to me…so I would really like to here from some other folks who consider themselves “Old School”…what’s it mean to you?

The thread did turn into a good debate on disclosure so to that issue I wish to clarify my stand. Again let me restate my viewpoint is that of a Dom in a D/s relationship with a female partner. I think it important to be clear as to the why of my position. We are on a BDSM site that deals with sexual issues, a site like this is going to consist of some people looking for sex related relationships either online or in real life. Now I don’t know about the rest of the world but around here if you go to a car lot to look at cars you can expect someone is going to try to sell you a car. Just makes sense to me, if on a BDSM site you can expect someone at sometime is going to try to “sell” a relationship of some sort . It is from that stand point and that understanding that I take the stand of keeping a known partner in the loop. In MY definition of “Old School” I am honor bound to keep a subs Dom in the loop of any friendship that has built. Fairly simple and straight forward to me, and if I have learned nothing in my life simple and straight forward keeps me out of sticky situations. I have made several introductions via PM and have never had a negative response from a Dom.

But that’s “Old School” to ME, so damyanti should we develop a friendship, and I hope we do, I can guarantee two things 1) My sub will know and 2) if you have a Dom, I’ll be introducing myself.

I wasnt taking the opposing view and I appologise if thats how it came across, because I admire your "old school view" a lot and I wish more people would subscribe to it. We just seem to have a differing view on who should be doing the introduction to whom.

[~faerie~]

i believe my Master (Master Rabbit) answered your question. He may not have been wordy with his response, but he did share his views. just an fyi
Respectfully,
Shy

[J-Go]

i believe my Master (Master Rabbit) answered your question. He may not have been wordy with his response, but he did share his views. just an fyi
Respectfully,
Shy

Indeed he did...thank you for the correction!

[icey]

*holds hands up* ok guilty!but i did try and answer it a bit lol.
old school generally refers indeed as blythe says mainly to the leather boys although not always.
old school was much more about ettiquette, protocol and whilst all the emblems,ssc,rack do this dont do that limits and more often than not safewords were occasionally applied more often than not they were scorned upon it just wasnt expected on either Dom/me or sub side, this was just before ''old shool'' actually became old school lol. discipline played a much stronger part than it does now and in a totally different way, discipline more in the original sense of the term..not just a spanking (that sometimes turns into a bit of kinky fun) a stern look or a bit of a lecture it was real discipline of a kind that you avoided at all costs! kind of victorian in a way.

dress in anywhere related was usually a must not an option,and at home, it wasnt really considered a fetish or a bit of fun or roleplay it genuinely was a way of life ..hence the turn of phrase lifestyle, yep you can all jump on the bandwagon and exclaim how we ''live the lifestyle'' and to a degree you'd be right but the way we live and view the lifestyle would simply have been loosely based roleplay to the majority of the genuine oldschoolers..as i said in my first post we would mostly be considered a disgrace!
i used to go to a few bars and clubs in a specific area and made quite a few friends and acquaintences who never ever once actually told me what they were/did (other than one and thats a different story lol) although i didnt realise it at the time there were many D/s couples both straight and gay who most people thought were weird (i was fascinated and loved it lol) and they were and behaved what they were without any selfconciousness or care what anyone else thought, and it was natural simply a party of who and what they are they didnt stop and think about it or need to ''discuss everything'' the kind of things that we would consider exhibitionism and get a kick out of and feel brave etc they didnt...it wasnt contrived it was who and what they were and what they believed in..nothing to do with being gentlemanly etc im not saying they wernt or that they were it was just them.
i cant really explain it you would have to have been there and im sure some here were although at the same time im sure that the majority of ''old schoolers'' wouldnt deem bdsm sites worth their time.

[blythe spirit]

From what I've read, I think you're right, icey. The real "old-schoolers" would definitely take exception to what is considered "old school" today. And with my brattiness and willfulness, I wouldn't have stood a chance back then. lol