Why Nobama

[mkemse]

After voting Republican for many years I am voting today for Obama. We are forgetting in our government laws may be proposed by the president but short of martial law only congress can enact laws. 90% of Bush's proposals were rejected or just ignored by Congress. It was congress who gave Bush his powers. Inmy eyes Iraq was the wrong move but the faulty information came from outside the US through the Clinton white house. I feel we need someone who may bring a much needed breath of fresh air be it right or wrong. Maybe it will get us out of our rut. To me Palin is another Clinton just guilty of a different moral sin.

I knoe alot of very conservatives people, who have told me after 8 years they simply at least in 2008 can not vote Republican again

[mkemse]

Until Obama ups his taxes again.

It's not going to help jobs. It's not going to help small businesses that are trying to grow.

And it certainly won't help the middle class long term.

The 'poor' (I use this term loosely) people will remain poor and the rich people are just going to be pissed about taxes.

Go to Taxcutfacts.org, type in your income it will compare the tax break difference between Obamam and McCAin, it is an INDEPENDENT company, not affiliated with any Political organization
on a comparison, the person that recieive as $1,000 tax credit on Obama's Plan will only get $100 back on McCains check thesite out yourself and see

I just went their, on any annual income of $40,000 with zero dependdent, under Obam's Plan you get $500 back under McCain's you only get $473, rgranted it is not to much different but thereality is you still get back more on Obama's plan then on McCain, the site is setup specialy to compare your income, dependns ect versus their Tax Plan try it out see who will give you more back
This is NOT based on "fantasy" but thereality of informat of the site

[mkemse]

If you make $20,000 no depedent ect under the Obamam Plan you will get $1,000 back under McCain's Plan you get $0.00 back yes you get nothing back under McCains plan being single, with an annual income of $20,000

[denuseri]

Please!!! does anyone really think Obama is going to enact any of the Total BS he is promising to get into office other than to raise taxes and reduce the freedom of the people?

I find it hard to believe but it looks like Machieavelli is right, the masses may really be ignorant sheep.

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

It's change they want all right, change to a faceless tyranny of inividualistic wellfare state whorship.

Orwell was certianly right to fear the "left". Just as Plato and others before him.

[tazzinnc]

If you make $20,000 no depedent ect under the Obamam Plan you will get $1,000 back under McCain's Plan you get $0.00 back yes you get nothing back under McCains plan being single, with an annual income of $20,000

Thats because you would be paying ZERO income tax to start with !!!!
If you make under 20 grand now you pretty much get it all back anyway, so how do you need a tax cut ?

You should NEVER be able to get back more than you paid in, and that does not include paying into the scheme known as Social Security.

[mkemse]

Please!!! does anyone really think Obama is going to enact any of the Total BS he is promising to get into office other than to raise taxes and reduce the freedom of the people?

I find it hard to believe but it looks like Machieavelli is right, the masses may really be ignorant sheep.

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

It's change they want all right, change to a faceless tyranny of inividualistic wellfare state whorship.

Orwell was certianly right to fear the "left". Just as Plato and others before him.

After 8 years of what we have gone through, Obamam desrve a shot, Mccain will follow what Bush has done his Senate voting record support his supporting Bush 95% of thetime, thisi s a public records
If McCain win, gas will go up to $10 a galoon and we will be in Iraq til then end of time
Nobody yet has shown that Obamam will not do his tax cuts, he dersrve a chance to show he will McCain in another 4 years of failed Bush Policies

[mkemse]

Thats because you would be paying ZERO income tax to start with !!!!
If you make under 20 grand now you pretty much get it all back anyway, so how do you need a tax cut ?

You should NEVER be able to get back more than you paid in, and that does not include paying into the scheme known as Social Security.

Under Obama's plan id you make $40,000 you get approx $1,800 back under McCain you get $157

Even the Heritage Foundation and Ultra Conservative Right Wing Group has Publicly stated Obama's Tax program offer more the McCaons does

Wewill see what happens a vote for McCain isa vote for 4 more years of Bush Policies

[mkemse]

Please!!! does anyone really think Obama is going to enact any of the Total BS he is promising to get into office other than to raise taxes and reduce the freedom of the people?

I find it hard to believe but it looks like Machieavelli is right, the masses may really be ignorant sheep.

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

It's change they want all right, change to a faceless tyranny of inividualistic wellfare state whorship.

Orwell was certianly right to fear the "left". Just as Plato and others before him.

I have no seen anytying that he will not enacted it, til i see that I can't say he won't, i lie to see evidence that soemthing will not happen, rather then assuming it won't

Nobody thought JFK hasd a chance in the World to win in the 60's to youg, too inexperieinced and at the time anyway Roman Cathlicx, loo at histroy on that

I have no see anything not believe believe in his tax program

[mkemse]

Thats because you would be paying ZERO income tax to start with !!!!
If you make under 20 grand now you pretty much get it all back anyway, so how do you need a tax cut ?

You should NEVER be able to get back more than you paid in, and that does not include paying into the scheme known as Social Security.

Not true, i had a job years ago that paid me $19.500 a year, i had to PAY income taxes never got anything back

[mkemse]

Please!!! does anyone really think Obama is going to enact any of the Total BS he is promising to get into office other than to raise taxes and reduce the freedom of the people?

I find it hard to believe but it looks like Machieavelli is right, the masses may really be ignorant sheep.

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

It's change they want all right, change to a faceless tyranny of inividualistic wellfare state whorship.

Orwell was certianly right to fear the "left". Just as Plato and others before him.

I am far more fearful of Sarah Palin becoming President then I am of Obamam winnig, even her own hom town paper said she is too much of a risk

If McCAin looses, he will loosei n part because of his choice of a runnig mate
He wanted to appeal to Hilalry Democrats so he chooses someone who is 100%the oposite of Clinton, not a lot of sensethere
Plus in an interview she wasaksedwhat t he VP actualy does mher reply "I run the Senate" no shedoes not, all shedoes is cast tie breaking votes and even the RNC aid her answerwas not rright
Shewill sink McVains boat

[hopperboo]

Please!!! does anyone really think Obama is going to enact any of the Total BS he is promising to get into office other than to raise taxes and reduce the freedom of the people?

I find it hard to believe but it looks like Machieavelli is right, the masses may really be ignorant sheep.

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

It's change they want all right, change to a faceless tyranny of inividualistic wellfare state whorship.

Orwell was certianly right to fear the "left". Just as Plato and others before him.

Sorry. I just had to quote this again.

Because I think it needs to be...

Read.

Again.



And then re-read.



Did you re-read it?

Now are you seriously going to vote for Obama?




...I think I need to take a step back. At least until this crap is over, because I am starting to get really pissed.

[hopperboo]

Seriously though. Re-read it.

[mkemse]

Sorry. I just had to quote this again.

Because I think it needs to be...

Read.

Again.



And then re-read.



Did you re-read it?

Now are you seriously going to vote for Obama?




...I think I need to take a step back. At least until this crap is over, because I am starting to get really pissed.

I live in the United State Of America, where I have Freedom Of Choice, yes I fully plan to vote for the person I feel is right forthe job and they are not part of the current party in office

i end my portion of this thread for myself here

Let's see what happens Tuesday

[mkemse]

My not Supporting McCain has more to do with HIS choive of a VP then anything else
I grindge at the slighity chance she has to become President if McCain is unable to fulfill his full term
And yes I could support other Feamles as VP just no Palin sorry

[hopperboo]

I live in the United State Of America, where I have Freedom Of Choice, yes I fully plan to vote for the person I feel is right forthe job and they are not part of the current party in office

i end my portion of this thread for myself here

Let's see what happens Tuesday

Yup. I guess we'll agree to disagree.




And I have to agree with you in part about Sarah Palin. I don't think she is VP material even if I like(ish) her as a person. She doesn't step back enough on topics, among other things in my opinion.

for now!





p.s. And sorry about using the "you" in my last post. I am really trying not to do that because it's more offensive and finger pointing towards people. I just didn't take the time to breathe and re-read my post before I posted it. It wasn't meant as an attack on "you."

[mkemse]

Yup. I guess we'll agree to disagree.




And I have to agree with you in part about Sarah Palin. I don't think she is VP material even if I like(ish) her as a person. She doesn't step back enough on topics, among other things in my opinion.

for now!





p.s. And sorry about using the "you" in my last post. I am really trying not to do that because it's more offensive and finger pointing towards people. I just didn't take the time to breathe and re-read my post before I posted it. It wasn't meant as an attack on "you."

No offense taken
but I am glad we agree on Palin, if i had any doubts about her, the fact that the Alaks Tribune enfodred Obama and the fatc that she told a 3rd grader that the VP controls congress and the RNC had to step in scare me, she is runnig for an office and does nor even knowwhat her job intales
she just scars me, and many havesaid if McCain does loose it may be mre do it his terible choice of a bad VP then anything else, she could very well cost him the White House

[Torq]

OK,,Folks time for my ""Fair Warning"" post!!!!

STAY ON TOPIC,,,,AND,,,, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14615

As my old saying goes;;;

""Opinions are just like assholes,,everyone has one and most of em stink"""

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

T

[mkemse]

Thanks and no problem

[hopperboo]

Yep. And I think we had it all hashed out before hand.

I got a little too grumpy and had already (as one can tell) apologized for it.

[QuietMaster]

A vote for Obama is a vote for the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

The Liberal agenda has been, in one way or another, slowly eroding both of these since its advent around the turn of the last Century. We can thank Marx for that snowball.

Every single traditional value that has made us great is attacked and destroyed by them every chance they get, allways under the guise of trying to promote so called politically correctness and tolerance when they are the least tolerant people in the world. In actuallity all they have ever done is inadvertantly feed the burecratic beast and erode freedom.

Would appreciate an indication of the:

1. Specific tenets that would be the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

2. The traditional values under attack.

3. Specific areas of freedon that are eroded.

[denuseri]

I would hope that it is obvious. Why for me NObama:

Specific tennents include but are not limmited to the following mainly becuase they are far too numerous to expound upon without writing a book:

One symptom is we have a negative birth rate now in both weastern Europe and America which is a direct result of the decline of family values, more and more family is pushed aside for the sake of individual feedom or choice. Low or negative birth rates all too often are a warning sign of cultural decline, it happened to the Greeks, and the Romans, Now it happens to us. Number one offender for this, liberal feminism.

Why?
Becuase Ordinary Men and Women are no longer considered to be capable of raising or educating thier families with out forced intervention by the state. A state sponsered education includes the indoctronation of Dewey's one sided view of liberal principles. Leading to an overall lowering of educational standards. As opposed to the study of the classics and applicable science. Virtue is no longer stressed, honor means dont get cuaght, and how to think is trumped by what to think.

Traditions involving the family, religion and morality have been shoved aside as backwards or ignorant. And replaced with the worship of the scientific state, be politically correct or be branded a dinosuar, speak aginst it and you are a fanatic.

The home is no longer sacrosant! The state is allowed to intervine at will (especially into homes of the poor) demoting the traditional will of the parents and introducing regardless of good intentions chaos into the home, you cant even punish your children or enforce disipline (which directly leads to higher crime later) without fear that the state will confiscate your children or imprison you.

Shuttleing the child off to be taken care of by the state from the single parent home, since mom or dad or both probably wouldnt put up with each other and have left. Pervading dependence on the mercy of society to take care of you.

Socialism is the primary focus of the liberal state, its anti business and pro redistribution of welf approach decries the end of personal ownership and promotes total dependence on the wellfare of the state. In the pursuit of individual entitlement (the twisted liberal view of freedom) one eventual will find only the tyrantical totalitarian control of the faceless buracracy.It wont carry on any kind of endeavor that requires great effort, it will simply plod complacenty along until it succumbs to anarchy or the rise of a dictator.

Its also a state that lacks real fortitude or any sence of survival. It will nuckle under to terroists and any other boogy man that wishes to extort it. The complacent lack of will to deal with Terroism and illegal imigration are two prime examples of decline.

Just like the Romans...

... our own barbarians are very much at the gates.

Which is why I didnt vote fo Obama, what he believes in will only usher in our fall

[lucy]

One symptom is we have a negative birth rate now in both weastern Europe and America which is a direct result of the decline of family values, more and more family is pushed aside for the sake of individual feedom or choice. Low or negative birth rates all too often are a warning sign of cultural decline, it happened to the Greeks, and the Romans, Now it happens to us. Number one offender for this, liberal feminism.

That's wrong. The most important reasons for declining birthrates are, tataaa!!!: Growing wealth and better education (especially of women) Feminism is playing a part too, but not in the way you are implying.
Look at scandinavian countries, or France, where equality and chances for women are amongst the best in the western world (and one could pretty safely assume that this is due to liberal feminism): They have also the highest birthrates.
Of course you could try and turn back time to that ooooh soooo glorious times when women where just working slaves and birth machines. However, i think (and hope) you would be pretty much alone.

Btw, i never heard of liberal feminism in classic Rome or Greece, but i could be mistaken.

[mkemse]

Would appreciate an indication of the:

1. Specific tenets that would be the decline of weastern civilization and the fall of America.

2. The traditional values under attack.

3. Specific areas of freedon that are eroded.

Nonoeo f this will happen everyone is assumingthat becase of BarCk's middle ame that he isa Muslum and will distroythiscountry even colin powelsaid"So wha if he is a Muslum, ntall muslumsare Terrorists"

People need to judge him based on who he is, what he wants to do to improve the country and focus lesson his name and color

BTW McCain was born in Panama, there are some that claim he was born in Panama before we took over, if this is the case McCAin is NOT a natural born citizen of the USA and does not even quaify to run

Let;s concentrate on the issues and not on names, heritage ect

Or is is very possible even in 2008, that some do not want Obama simply because he is Black??

[skp2bear]

They said our country wound be ruined when a Catholic was elected - JFK. We're still here. I'm not worried at all about his religion. His ideas are fresh. My hopes and prayers are that he can get at least some of what he suggests through the demigods who think they are running the government through their congressional positions.

[denuseri]

Not my words but the analogy is is oh so right on target:

"Once upon a time, there was a charismatic and eloquent young leader who decided his nation needed a change and that he was the one to implement it. The people were receptive and ready for change.

He spoke passionately when denouncing the existing system and the media loved him. Nobody questioned what he believed in or who his friends were. He would help the poor and bring free medical care and education to all. He would bring justice and equality. He said I am for hope and change, and I will bring you both. Few people bothered to ask about the change, and by the time the executioner's guns went silent, all personal firearms had been confiscated, along with most personal freedoms.

When everyone was finally equal, they were (and are) equally poor, hungry and miserable. Their free education was (and is) all but worthless. Their free and universal health care was (and remains) a travesty. When the change was fully implemented, the country had been reduced to Third World status. More than a million people fled in small boats and rafts.

The charismatic young leader was Fidel Castro; the nation is Cuba.

The citizens of the United States would never fall for a charismatic, eloquent young leader who promises hope and change without asking, "what kind of change, and how much will it cost us?" – would we?"

[denuseri]

For clarification purposes:

"One symptom is we have a negative birth rate now in both weastern Europe and America which is a direct result of the decline of family values, more and more family is pushed aside for the sake of individual feedom or choice. Low or negative birth rates all too often are a warning sign of cultural decline, it happened to the Greeks, and the Romans, Now it happens to us. Number one offender for this, liberal feminism."
I am not saying liberal feminisim cuased rome and greece's populations to fall I am saying the liberals promotion of it is leading directly to the fall of our own populations. Read the post in context please.

Populations fall for a varity of reasons and it allmost allways signals the fall or decline of a given cultural group throught history from the romans and greeks to the american indians and the aborigionies of austrailia to western civilizations today

[DesertDom]

BTW McCain was born in Panama, there are some that claim he was born in Panama before we took over, if this is the case McCAin is NOT a natural born citizen of the USA and does not even quaify to run

Please, you really need to investigate a talking point before repeating it. Its easy to spend a few minutes researching something before accepting it as the truth.

The Panama Canal Zone was created on November 18, 1903 with the signing of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty. From 1903 to 1979 the territory was controlled by the United States of America, which had built and financed the canal's construction.

Since McCain was born August 29, 1936, he was born into what was legally considered a US territory.
A Senate bipartisan legal review agreed that McCain is a natural-born citizen of the United States, a constitutional requirement to become president. Here also is reporting of a federal law suit which ruled on the issue.
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1354301&nid=213

[DesertDom]

They said our country wound be ruined when a Catholic was elected - JFK. We're still here. I'm not worried at all about his religion. His ideas are fresh. My hopes and prayers are that he can get at least some of what he suggests through the demigods who think they are running the government through their congressional positions.

I'm not concerned about his religion or his racial background. I am concerned about his socialistic bent of wealth distribution ( all clearly documented ) and his long associations with radical extremists.


Socialism has proven to fail everywhere it has been tried, why does anyone think it will work here?

[mkemse]

Please, you really need to investigate a talking point before repeating it. Its easy to spend a few minutes researching something before accepting it as the truth.

The Panama Canal Zone was created on November 18, 1903 with the signing of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty. From 1903 to 1979 the territory was controlled by the United States of America, which had built and financed the canal's construction.

Since McCain was born August 29, 1936, he was born into what was legally considered a US territory.
A Senate bipartisan legal review agreed that McCain is a natural-born citizen of the United States, a constitutional requirement to become president. Here also is reporting of a federal law suit which ruled on the issue.
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1354301&nid=213

and thats the point, of his being born in Panama is as irreveleavnt as wether Obama is Muslim, SO WHAT if he is, so what if Mccain was born on Panama, i am FAR more concenred about whehre they stand on issues then about their religion or place of birth

Even Clin POwell said abou Obamam being Muslim, "So what, do the Terrists make ALL Muslims bad people??"


i just want next Tusday Nov 4th to come and go so all these TV ads, radio ect ect will follow time out the door, enough of all of it now, let's vote and let the winner rejoice and let us gt our daily lives back o the way they were before the campaigns syarted

[Muskan]

FOX News Poll: Obama's Edge Over McCain Narrows
The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...ccain-narrows/