Dp the best Tops make the best bottoms or vice versa?

[RickBulow74]

In a discussion in a BDSM room on another site, I mentioned I consider myself a Switch because I feel that the best subs make the best Dom/es. Now, a couple of months after I posted it, I decided to put the question to those who are switches in here.

[naomi57 {ukMC}]

hi my Master who i have now was a slave himself so he knows what us subs have to go through so i myself think that it is equal 50/50

[subserviant]

i guess that wud depend on what you consider best .im prob one of the worst subs but the Domm i play with considers me the best

[JohnVanDom]

...the strongest and most admirable submissives - those who fully immerse themselves, who wait before leaping into a named relationship, who honor their lifestyle, their Dominant and their "vanilla" life, are precious.

Without strong submissives, Dominance - would not even be possible.

Think of a Queen, who commands the strong dark Knight, to become her Lord and Master. All submissives who offer this represent the strongest among us, in my in my strong - opinion.

To paraphrase M. Ghandhi - Leadership is part of the followers - the movement of the human spirit. To truly lead is to be willing to strike the trail that others follow with energy and determination.

And is a responsibility that often, can be the most beautiful and yet difficult challenge a Dominant - or at least this Dominant, ever faces.

[FryingScot]

Excellent question. Being a Dom I usually find the subject is in control and they are offering themselves for both your gratification.

[thir]

In a discussion in a BDSM room on another site, I mentioned I consider myself a Switch because I feel that the best subs make the best Dom/es. Now, a couple of months after I posted it, I decided to put the question to those who are switches in here.

I do not think it is that simple. Yes, having tried both sides is precious knowledge - for both being dom and sub. You just know so much more about how things work and feel. But I do not think you absolutely have to have both sides to be a good Dom/susb.

[craven]

having been a dom for some time, the learning curve and emotions and feelings that i have learned as a result of switching and being a sub to my domma have i feel helped me obtain a much better understanding of how submissives feel and think, as such i feel i am a better dom for the experience.

i agree with subservient though, i am not sure i am a good or the best sub, you would have to ask my domma about that, i know i had a lot of lessons to learn and hopefully am doing so, however i would never be so presumptuous as to call myself the best, you never know she may read this and that would cause me all sorts of problems i am sure.

I feel yes it helps greatly to be able to know and appreciate the feelings from both sides of the dynamic

[subserviant]

craven I wud love nothing better than to see you in trouble with yr domme hehe

[RickBulow74]

I might have worded it wrong, and for that I apologize. I was just trying to go on what I had recalled from a discussion a couple of months ago and as such things prolly gone a little wonky. However, based on some of the replies to this thread it has given me some things I had not thought on

[naughty_rick]

I would have to say YES I have been in both sides and think that it has given me a better understanding of how to make it the best experance. No one has complained yet

[denuseri]

The question : "Does Switching make one the best dom or sub??", is one I see as an attempt by those identifing themselves as Switches to give some sort of validation to Switching as an identity as opposed to a behavior. Something which I don't believe to even be officially nessesary to the practice of the "Art of BDSM."

I Disagrees 100% with the idea that the best doms/subs come from those that have played both roles. But I will agree that the best dominants and submissives study thier counterparts roles, behaviors, and phycology in detail.

This doesnt mean I am saying a dominant shouldnt feel the lash on thier bottom ever or a sub wield a lash on other subs.

If anything it has allways seemed to me that the best dominants (for me) never submitted in such fashion to another submissive (at least not in thier hearts which is an entirely different thing than playing at being a sub)-(identity vs temporary roleplaying behavior for training purposes or otherwise) and those that have that have tried to dominant me simply seem to be missing a certian something.

Of course in todays bdsm enviroment its comon place enough to see.

Observationally I have seen subs and doms dominate each other all the time, especially on the internet. There seems to be a sort of hierachy of dominion that exists between all people regardless of vanillia standing or not, some doms are more dominant than others etc, calling oneself a dom doesnt nessesarally make it so; just as some subs are more submissive than others. Often times the eldar (more experienced) doms and subs take a leadership role over the younger ones as is natural for them to to so that knowledge may be passed on from one generation to the next.

Todays "Switch" is a far different persona than the consept of switching roles I was taught, but then again my beginings in bdsm were not on the wide open internet community or munch circuit that has popularized the art today.

Amongst the groups of bdsm practicioners that often cohabitated together and trained me for the most part (someting that doesnt seem to occur much anymore) we lived in an extended sort of "harem" setting called the "House". Within this house I had the privelage to participate in as a early submissive, switching did technically occur on many levels official and unofficially most often betwen the submissives but allmost only as a temporary behavior not an identity were any dominants were involved and never ever did a sub dom a dominant even to train them. The official positions of authority were allways assigned by the Master of the House and his senior dominants. Training situations where an older sub dominates a younger one etc were very common. Just as more senior dominants train their respective breathern in private or used a chosen submissive to practice upon. Unofficial positions develop of course between the different sides of the house themselves. Sometimes the favorite girls hold an unofficial higher status though they may not be considered above the eldst submissive or "first girl" of the house that is granted the use of the quirt over all the other subs. Becoming a personal slave was also a very high status position. Being allowed to own a personal slave or private harem within the confines of the house was an even bigger deal.

In the above no where do I describe switching as a form of identity alltough the behavior is exhibited in a temporary fashion between individuals depending on thier respected levels of authority. This does not mean that sometimes a submissive does not permately shift to the dominant side of the house and or vice versa. And it was allways a very big deal when one did.

I don't know if "Houses" like the one I described still even exist really or if they have morphed into the less strict environs of a munch community etc.

I do know that the house I participated in claimed to predate the leatherman in its european origins and was very secerative in who it included within its ranks, even after the internet began to popularize bdsm.

Technically according to many here I and my husband both would be classified as "Switchs" at least according to the way its currently defined in our contemporary community here at the Library (alltough I have never personally seen him submit to anyone in a bdsm setting nor has he ever submitted to me, I do know that he was apprenticed in an "old school" capacity even if it was different from my own).

Sorry if it seems like I have been on a tangent here, but I think its important to share the reasons behind my observations.

It also might shed some light for those of you new to bdsm as to why there is some disagreement when it comes to the acceptance of switchs as an identity group.

Personally I don't care what term of Identity one wishes to use, (heck I call myself a kajira) I just wish to pass on some knowledge as to what those terms mean for some so we dont lose the history of our path so to speak, in the proccess of modernizing the bdsm world we have a tendency to be all encompasing and to forget where we all came from and if we are to find our way forward we should at least if only on occassion take a look or two back once in awhile.

[moco]

denuseri: I really like your explanation on switches and the way you talk about it maybe as more as those attempting to identify themselves rather then a behavior.

But then again I wonder if the lifestyle of BDSM, isnt it a behavior?

Being new , I would like to just learn first before I figure out just what it is that I am whether a Dom or submissive or a switch. I will be the first to admit that I just do not know enough right now to say one way or the other. I have heard that females are all submissive, even the Dom ones but they just havent found the right Dom for them. But then I see that there are male submissives and think what they are just Doms who havent found the right submissive for them. I look forward to finding my own true identity in the future, it will be an interesting journey for me.

[thir]

Being new , I would like to just learn first before I figure out just what it is that I am whether a Dom or submissive or a switch. I will be the first to admit that I just do not know enough right now to say one way or the other. I have heard that females are all submissive, even the Dom ones but they just havent found the right Dom for them. But then I see that there are male submissives and think what they are just Doms who havent found the right submissive for them. I look forward to finding my own true identity in the future, it will be an interesting journey for me.

People say so much!

The best way to do that journey is to forget ALL about what people say, and simply explore. To this day no one has been able to put what we are on any form - and I have to admit I like that! To me BDSM is wild and free and individual, and very, very diverse. So follow your heart, and see where it leads.

And yes, there are indeed switches, and you may be one. Don't shy away from that idea, the most important thing is to find out who and what YOU are and be the best and happiest YOU you can be.

Good luck :-)

[moco]

So I have hit my three week mark at being here. I have to say that before coming here I didnt even realize that there was such a thing as being a dominate or a submissive, I knew that BDSM existed, but what that entailed I didnt really know.
What I have been doing though is exploring the Domme side of me, which I find to be a really fascinating experience. To have some one call me Miss and to have them give to me of themselves in such an open way makes me appreciate them more.
It does sometimes take me a while to switch back into being a dominate once I have been in my submissive role. Although going from my dominate role to a submissive one only takes the appearance of someone to whom I feel really submissive. when this first happened I was very confused, I had never felt such a thing before and I was thinking to myself, why do I feel this way towards "this" person, or "that" person and whenever these select people are around I find it hard not to act that way. At first I got mad at myself for feeling that way, but after a few days of reflecting on it I just decided, I am here to learn about BDSM and being submissive is part of that, even when it seems that my mind and body disagree with each other. so I decided to ask someone to help me explore those feelings further and it has only been a week since he agreed and yet I fall into being submissive towards him more easilly then ever.
It still is rather confusing to me to have two so separate sides to myself, each strong in its own way. The journey continues........

[cheetahgirl2002]

In my experience you have to know how to be a slave to be a good Dom. Though I suppose the same goes the other way. You know what is expected either way and can switch. Switches are complicated some have triggers to make them switch some can be forced some can do it at will. I feel that the ones that do it at will are just sometimes going for attention and aren't really a true switch they do it out of fun. Its a complicated question one that is not easily answered. There are Doms that have been slaves before tried that first to realize they don't have the mentality and vice versa. I myself thought that I was more Dom but with the right knowledge and reading a lot of material as well as experience I found out I was so very wrong. Its a yes and no sort of thing I guess it really depends on the person. I myself can "play" a Dom role but I have to force myself into that to stay there before I slip into a more submissive one. Its something I don't suggest toying with stick with what your stronger and best at. Just my opinion.

[FirstBorn]

Im so puzzled by this question i really gotta ask.
Now i put in Dom/switch in my profile because i sometimes like to sub a little but mostly dom. I dont know if im a good dom, actually i doubt there is such a thing, but i have a sub and shes happy with my style and was pretty messed up by a previus dom. So for her im better than another dom.. Good enuff for me its not like theres an award and even if there was theres no cash prize.

Am i a good sub? uhmm well if i was dom'ing myself id be perfect. For some smartass knowitall domme? Nah id be the worst sub that ever took your whip away and put you in your place. I switch on weakness and in a bad way.

Now as for being a good or bad sub. well whats considered good?

[leo9]

denuseri: I really like your explanation on switches and the way you talk about it maybe as more as those attempting to identify themselves rather then a behavior.

You may like it, but that doesn't make it so. I am not trying to identify myself, I've known I was a switch since long before I knew there was a word for it. I know what works for me as a Dom, and as a sub, and neither of them is some kind of mistake I'm going to give up.

I have heard that females are all submissive, even the Dom ones but they just havent found the right Dom for them.

Now there is something I wouldn't care to say to some of the Dommes here. Come to that, you'd have been taking your life in your hands to say it to any of the women I've owned: they might have been slaves to me, but they'd go up in a sheet of flame if someone told them it was because all women are submissive. Me, I like to think that all Doms, male and female, could be sub if they found the right person, and vice versa. But I wouldn 't make a rule out of it.

[leo9]

I think I'm a better Dom for having also subbed, but not for any reasons of practical experience, because everyone is different: what I want and need as a sub is quite different from what I like to do to my own subs.

What I've gained from switching is the knowledge that being a Dom doesn't make me any kind of superior being to the naked slave at my feet. I treat subs with respect, even when I'm torturing and humiliating them, because I know we're all the same behind the masks.

I think most of the harm done in the name of BDSM is done by Doms who really believe they are something special just because they're holding the whip, and that the sub is some kind of lower animal that exists just to be used. Which is a great fantasy, but if you don't know it's a fantasy, you're as dangerous as a man who really believes that all women secretly want to be overpowered and raped.

[Ozme52]

Im so puzzled by this question...

Me too. Just what is the vice versa of that statement. And once you know, the poll is asking what? If either is true, (the yes answer) or if neither is true, (the no answer.)

So once you have the poll results... you know... what exactly?

[leo9]

Just what is the vice versa of that statement.

I assumed it was, do the best bottoms make the best Tops?

[Ozme52]

I assumed it was, do the best bottoms make the best Tops?

Is that even an alternate (as in vice versa) to that question?

Regardless...

Why not "Do tops or doms make the best doms?"

Or "Do tops or doms make the best bottoms?"

I mean, after all, vice versa means "the other way around" so which other way around is, to be brief, the opposite of the initial question posed?

Also, I really want to know, how did you justify either a yes or no answer considering you were given an "or" question?