Fine line between bottom and sub?

[denuseri]

The op wasnt asking about submission...but if you want to get technical about it thir...everyone submits to someone somehow some of the time no matter who one is in real life.

In other words both "dominance" and "submission" exist, just as they have throughout all of known human history, outside of it's bdsm context.

The hierarchy of dominion model universally applies during all human interactions even when said humans are not consciously aware of it. It's part of who and what we all are, despite the best attempts of some to live in denial of it.

Some forms of submission are more subtle than others, just as some forms of dominance are.

Just becuase its not overtly sexualized and in one's face as it is sometimes during one's practice of the art (bdsm) doesnt some how make it disapear or change the meaning of the words dominance and submission all of the sudden.

[Ozme52]

And yet you have "submitted" to giving up control in those instances as well as many others...

is it the same kind of "submission" given by the slave on her knees before her Master?

Of course it isnt. But it is a type of submission none the less.

Nice denu... "using" the same sort of semantical argument I might propose... but as this conversation is trying to differentiate between a submissive and a bottom, it is all about context.

I think that context lies in the concept of a continuum, as thir and I have separately pointed out in other related and non-related threads. The "boundary" if you will, between the definition of bottom, sub, and slave, is different for each of us. So you can play with the word and use it at the far end of the continuum but you can't use it as an argument against my statement and in the same breath agree it isn't the same.

I'd argue that few people would equate my willingness to relinquish control in one arena as being the same as submission. It's just control of the airplane (or other venue) that I relinquish. In fact, having done so, if the pilot said he now intended to break covenant with the terms of the "contract" negotiated for this event, the flight, I would have every right to end his control, whether by leaving or wresting away his control. Far more like bottoming in a scene than submitting to a dominant.

[Ozme52]

But we were in fact talking about bottoms giving up control to tops, weren't we?

No, we were talking about the difference between bottoms and submissives, in both scenes and in the longer term relationships.

[denuseri]

Yes Sir,

...context is most certiantly important...all I was pointing out was that dominance and submission exist in all aspects of life as biologically natural components to human interaction and are not limited or confined to a contextual side bar within a strictly "bdsm" sexual relationship alone.

I was not sugesting that one's "identity" as a dominant or submissive majically becomes diminished somehow just becuase situations require one to dominate and or submit to one extent or another outside of said bdsm identity inclussive context.

All we are doing by hashing around about the differences between a bottom, a submissive, and a slave, or a top, a dominant and or a master/mistress (each of which have their own history within the community that the politically correct world of the internet consistantly attempts to change including the development of "new" terms that actually have no real purpose in actual practice of the art) is attempting to define the paramaters in intensity and or duration as well as mental and physical orientation/ intent of the participants yes?

In the end it doesnt really matter what one calls one's self in so far as titular distinctions go; especially since in actual practice there is always at least one who holds the whip and at least one who kneels to kiss it.

[Liushka]

...context is most certiantly important...all I was pointing out was that dominance and submission exist in all aspects of life as biologically natural components to human interaction and are not limited or confined to a contextual side bar within a strictly "bdsm" sexual relationship alone.

I was not sugesting that one's "identity" as a dominant or submissive majically becomes diminished somehow just becuase situations require one to dominate and or submit to one extent or another outside of said bdsm identity inclussive context.

That was a very interesting observation, as while it isn't truly related to my original question, it was a worthy tidbit of food for thought.

As for the various answers generally speaking, I admit that while I have some better ideas of how I might define (or leave labels aside) myself, I appreciate the input since it's true that depending on what you read "definitions" of certain terms can be confusing, which was why I thought that asking people who are into BDSM (which in itself is a very large umbrella word) might offer good info.