Gas Prices

[denuseri]

There is no quick fix
Assuming that is a vast conspiracy of international oil companies,

Its not vast or a conspiracy...just 7 major companies ( four of which used to belong to the Standard Oil before the Government stepped in and broke its original near monopoly) sitting down once in a while to shape policy in a steering committee...they have been doing it rather openly since the 1950's too.

it doesn't matter because none of them are based in the US or under any sort of US authority.

(flat out wrong...most of the 7 at one time or another evolved directly from Standard Oil...and as evidenced by the results of the BP oil spill -not to mention half a dozen other instances in history- the respected governments of any given country can quite easily step in and stop even a multi national company dead in its tracks if they wish)

they are state owned foreign companies, so they dont have to lobby america for shit.

Wrong again.

The lobby mainly to the Republicans (some democrats too when it suits them)

They dont just lobby in America...they outright buy rulers in many countries.



China National Petrolium Corporation does not give a hoot what the US thinks, and the US can't tell it to do anything.


Yet our big oil owned government backs our continued military and commercial intervention against Chinese oil interests around the world and especially in the oil corridor of the middle east.

All US oil companies make up less than 10% of the market, so there's no US policy that can work.

Again your missing the point and apparently either misinformed or flat out trying to obfuscate things. In the past before the oil lobby took over we can and did give them a good spanking and could again if we desired.

Look at what we did to BP for its mistake in the Gulf for an example.


If you want to put a price control on oil, someone still has to buy it, and again, they're buying it from people who will set a price, whether it is fair or not, without regards to what the US wants. You can force Shell to sell gas for 2.50 a gallon, but if the price of a barrell of crude oil is 150 dollars, Shell is going to go under very fast. The only solution then is to have the gov't buy it directly at a loss, in which case, the people are still paying for it in taxes, and nothing has really changed except whho you write the check to.

With around 45% of the price of gas we currently pay in the USA being entirely "profit" (that's in the pink above and beyond expenses) for the oil companies (and or its affiliated distributors)...I see plenty of room for lowering the price.


Back to this 7 sisters business, I don't buy it that there is some global conspiracy to set the price on oil mainly because the 7 international companies are from countries that do not like one another, and they are state owned so it's not a matter of greedy businessmen. Saudi Arabia and China do not get along, and Saudi Arabia and Iran are at odds all the time (Iran's threat to mess with the Strait of Hormuts would be a serious blow to the Saudi economy).

Historical note for your information...Four of the "7 sisters" companies sprouted directly from Standard Oil, (one came from the UK) and none of them are from China or any Opec nations.

However, you can't dispute the fact that they're big companies, and again, they became big because they are all either 1) independent oil producing countries (Brazil, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Arabia) or 2) they have huge demand increases (Brazil, Russia, China, Malaysia). Compute that in with the fact that India and China are growing at a double diigit rate, and have been for the last 20 years, and you have literally half of the world population competing for the same amount of reserves.
Supply and Demand

Oh a point we can agree on...?

Maybe...I agree peek oil was reached long ago and that with the increase in demand we will have to find an alternative fuel source. Only the asshats who make the real money in the OIL companies (the ceo's etc) have no desire to seek alternative anythings. All they care about is how much their own personal cash out is going to be when they finally check out.

Its wise to also take into account that they purposefully reduced the number of refineries specifically to max out their profits and make shortages whenever they wanted...they have known the shortages were coming too... and the oil companies are going to gouge prices to maximize profits...left unrestricted it will only get worse.

Not a wink of this is in any way a conspiracy theory either hon...its well documented history. Just too boring for most people to bother with and usually never covered at anything other than the graduate level.

[denuseri]

That my Point, The Oil Companie OWN the Repulican Party, and it scars me to no end to think of what MAY happen to pricesif the Republicans take over the White House as long a The Oil Companies own theRepublican Party no major Quick Fixeswil ever happen, in the same regard as long as the NRA own the Party their wil neverbe changes in Gun Control laws in this Country
My queston is what happens if the Son, Daughter, Neice, Nephew ect of a REPUBLICAN Senator, Rep etc where ever killed with an UNREGISTERED GUn, would theREpublicans blow tha off to due to the prssure of Lobbiest from the NRA?

Coughs...perhaps the gun thing should be covered in its own thread huh?

I wouldn't go so far as to say they outright own the Republicans (though I will admit they lobby more heavily there whi9ch I think has to do more with which states happen to have predominately republican leanings and oil distribution interests than anything else) nor suggest that they are the only party that the oil companies have their hooks into either. I would say the oil companies are equal opportunity exploiters.

Just look how Obama is doing exactly what the Oil interests have wanted ever since he got elected. Prior to that he was saying all sorts of things he realistically had no intention of accomplishing or was just inexperienced enough to actually believe he could change. Note the war in the middle has pretty much followed to the letter Cheney and Rumsfeld's original plan first introduced to Bush Senior during the First Gulf War and rejected only to be dusted off and re-presented to Bush Jr and accepted once conditions made it more appealing. Once finished in one area it just moves to the next...Iran is up on the chopping block after Afghanistan. Though personally I think Bush the elder rejected it because he actually fought in a war himself and didn't want to see us go into an open ended "war" for global domination of the oil corridor against India and China.

[Punish_her]

2011 produced the most oil in history

And the 7 sisters you speak of have been out of the game for a very long time
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/471ae...#axzz1tp3cbvTI

China National Petroleum Corporation (China)
Gazprom (Russia)
National Iranian Oil Company (Iran)
Petrobras (Brazil)
PDVSA (Venezuela)
Petronas (Malaysia)
Saudi Aramco (Saudi Arabia)

again, us based oil companies own less than 10% of the market.
times, they are a changin

[Punish_her]

this 7 sisters notion was pioneered in the mid 50s, before opec, and before iran did its own thing, and before russia produced oil

[Punish_her]

oops almost forgot . . . another historical note: before standard oil, it cost 26 cents for a gallon of kerosine, by 1885 (the apex of standard oil), it cost 0.452 cents per gallon. historically, monopolies LOWER prices drastically

[denuseri]

And where do you buy your fuel? Where do you fill up your car or truck's tank today? Exxon?...Shell perhaps? A station owned by BP? The sisters are not out of anything darling.

[Punish_her]

gee I don't know . . . maybe its possible that it buys it from another country?
exxon buys more oil than it produces,and it buys that oil at a market price, which, as I have already shown evidence of, has an 88% chance of being bought by a previously mentioned national owned foreign oil company
the facts are all there: western oil is small potatoes, western oil buys from foreign oil
until i see actual published evidence elsewhere, i don't see what else can be discussed

[denuseri]

Western oil is still marking up the cost so that it gets a 45% profit margin above board at the pomt of sale (the gas station).

That's not cutting anyone any slack and its well above what the market price would dictate. (which is also set by them) Its charging the maximum amount the statisticians have determined Americans are willing to pay without crippling outright the interstate commercial cargo transportation industry.

[Punish_her]

Western oil is still marking up the cost so that it gets a 45% profit margin above board at the pomt of sale (the gas station).
That's not cutting anyone any slack and its well above what the market price would dictate. (which is also set by them) Its charging the maximum amount the statisticians have determined Americans are willing to pay without crippling outright the interstate commercial cargo transportation industry.

where is that number coming from? everything i read says they make on average between 5 and 8 cents per gallon from the gas station with gov't (local and federal) making about 30 cents.
also, once again, a 10% share of global reserves is not market power to set prices

[leo9]

no doubt in my mind that nuclear is a far more efficient way to go

Much doubt in many people's minds. There is a reason why no private company wants to build nuclear power stations any more, and it's not political: they've realised that the government won't shoulder all the real costs by disposing of the wastes, compensating the victims of planning blight, and cleaning up after accidents.

Japan is seriously considering not restarting any of the reactors they shut down after the earthquake, because they've discovered the hard way how much harm those things can do. And this is a country that has no fossil fuels to mention and bet most of its energy policy on nuclear; doing without it would cost them dear. That's how scared they are now.

[leo9]

Its charging the maximum amount the statisticians have determined Americans are willing to pay without crippling outright the interstate commercial cargo transportation industry.

Funny that, diesel in europe is about five times the price, and yet somehow our trucks keep on rolling and our goods don't cost more in the stores.