Obama And Gay Marriages

[Thorne]

i dont follow

North Carolina has passed an amendment making gay marriages illegal. From what you said earlier, any gay couple from New York, legally married, could be arrested in North Carolina because the state does not recognize their marriage license. So why couldn't the reverse happen. Have New York declare that it will not recognize marriage licenses from North Carolina. How can one be legal, but not the other?

[Punish_her]

actually ri recognizes gay marriages in ma but does not issue licenses itself, in other words, its legal to be in a gay marriage, but you can't get married

[Punish_her]

double post, my bad

[Thorne]

the goverment can't at least. i think a business should be allowed to be as discriminatory as it wants

Except that it can't. That issue was settled more than 40 years ago. ANY public business must abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. That's why restaurants, or clothing stores, or bars, or any other business which deals with the general public, cannot refuse to serve someone based upon race, color or creed. And it's my opinion, an the opinion of an ever-increasing percentage of the US population, that sexual orientation should be included in that ruling. There is no valid, legal reason for denying gays equal rights. The ONLY reasons are religious, which cannot be used to justify law.

[Thorne]

actually ri recognizes gay marriages in ma but does not issue licenses itself, in other words, its legal to be in a gay marriage, but you can't get married

Yes, that I can understand. States may be able to get away with declining to issue such marriage licenses, but they cannot (or at least should not) be permitted to ignore LEGAL licenses from other states. The same applies to drivers licenses. If you are licensed to drive in one state, you are licensed to drive in ALL states, even if you are not legally old enough to obtain a license in a particular state.

[Punish_her]

Except that it can't. That issue was settled more than 40 years ago. ANY public business must abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. That's why restaurants, or clothing stores, or bars, or any other business which deals with the general public, cannot refuse to serve someone based upon race, color or creed. And it's my opinion, an the opinion of an ever-increasing percentage of the US population, that sexual orientation should be included in that ruling. There is no valid, legal reason for denying gays equal rights. The ONLY reasons are religious, which cannot be used to justify law.

if its my property, i should be able to do what i want with it. if i want to have a resteraunt that only employs and caters to whites, seeing as how its my property, that should be legal

[StrictMasterD]

And unless I missunderstood the News Tonight, some Organization, possibly even the Governor not sure which has asked the DNC to move it 2012 out
of North Carolina because of what Obama said about Gay Marriages but NC is SO out of touch with current times it is unreal

[Thorne]

if its my property, i should be able to do what i want with it. if i want to have a resteraunt that only employs and caters to whites, seeing as how its my property, that should be legal

Except that, even if it's your property, you cannot run a business without acquiring a permit from the city/county/state. To obtain that permit, and keep it, you must abide by all applicable laws, at least one of which requires you to be non-discriminatory. Certainly there are valid reasons for keeping a particular person out of your store, but keeping an entire class of people out is illegal, and will cost you your ability to do business.

[StrictMasterD]

Except that, even if it's your property, you cannot run a business without acquiring a permit from the city/county/state. To obtain that permit, and keep it, you must abide by all applicable laws, at least one of which requires you to be non-discriminatory. Certainly there are valid reasons for keeping a particular person out of your store, but keeping an entire class of people out is illegal, and will cost you your ability to do business.

Thorne,
I have a question, you are right with what you havesaid, but what happens in siutations and I have seen them when you go by or into a resturant and there is a sign up that says "We reservethe right to refuse to serve anyone"
I have seen those ans thoe arelegal, wil probably kll the business but they are legal to you you can refuse serve to anyone you want
As am atter of fact without getting of track to much there was recently a resutrant inthe news who have asign up that say they wil not serve anyone who speaks Spanish, or only English spoken here?

[Thorne]

Thorne,
I have a question, you are right with what you havesaid, but what happens in siutations and I have seen them when you go by or into a resturant and there is a sign up that says "We reservethe right to refuse to serve anyone"
I have seen those ans thoe arelegal, wil probably kll the business but they are legal to you you can refuse serve to anyone you want

You can try that, of course. If someone is abusive to the workers, or creating a disturbance, there's no problem. But if you refuse service because someone is black, or Hispanic, or oriental, or Muslim, you run the risk of losing your license should they complain.

As am atter of fact without getting of track to much there was recently a resutrant inthe news who have asign up that say they wil not serve anyone who speaks Spanish, or only English spoken here?

You cannot refuse to serve someone just because they speak Spanish. That is discrimination. You CAN, however, notify your customers that you have no one in your employ who understands Spanish. That is information which might be important to a customer. Assuming they can read English! (Might be smarter to put up the sign in Spanish. And you can add French, Russian, Greek, Urdu, Bantu, etc, etc, etc.)

But think about it for a bit. You run a business, lets say a small restaurant. You are located in an area where a significant percentage of the locals are Hispanic. Wouldn't it make good business sense to have menus printed in Spanish, and to hire at least some Spanish speaking staff? To my mind, it would take a particularly masochistic, and foolish, business man to turn away a large amount of business just because he doesn't like to hear Spanish.

[StrictMasterD]

You can try that, of course. If someone is abusive to the workers, or creating a disturbance, there's no problem. But if you refuse service because someone is black, or Hispanic, or oriental, or Muslim, you run the risk of losing your license should they complain.


You cannot refuse to serve someone just because they speak Spanish. That is discrimination. You CAN, however, notify your customers that you have no one in your employ who understands Spanish. That is information which might be important to a customer. Assuming they can read English! (Might be smarter to put up the sign in Spanish. And you can add French, Russian, Greek, Urdu, Bantu, etc, etc, etc.)

But think about it for a bit. You run a business, lets say a small restaurant. You are located in an area where a significant percentage of the locals are Hispanic. Wouldn't it make good business sense to have menus printed in Spanish, and to hire at least some Spanish speaking staff? To my mind, it would take a particularly masochistic, and foolish, business man to turn away a large amount of business just because he doesn't like to hear Spanish.

Thorne,
Again I agree with you, my question is how does that Resturant get away with putting that sign up NOBDY had told him he has to take it down, I am sure it effect his busienss but how does he legally get away even using that sign?

[Punish_her]

Except that, even if it's your property, you cannot run a business without acquiring a permit from the city/county/state. To obtain that permit, and keep it, you must abide by all applicable laws, at least one of which requires you to be non-discriminatory. Certainly there are valid reasons for keeping a particular person out of your store, but keeping an entire class of people out is illegal, and will cost you your ability to do business.

well obviously that's the law but the law itself is unconstitutional

[Thorne]

well obviously that's the law but the law itself is unconstitutional

Not according to the Supreme Court. Their the ones who, you know, decide what is or isn't constitutional?

[Thorne]

Thorne,
Again I agree with you, my question is how does that Resturant get away with putting that sign up NOBDY had told him he has to take it down, I am sure it effect his busienss but how does he legally get away even using that sign?

From your post it sounds like there are two signs. One claims the right to refuse service to anyone. Which technically he can do, if he has just cause. But if he should try to refuse service based on race, creed or color he'll wind up in court, and out of business.

The other sign, near as I can tell from your post, just lets his customers know that they do not speak Spanish in his store. In an area with a large Spanish population, I can speculate that he's 'politely' letting his customers know that he does not speak Spanish, so they will have to speak English to get proper service. Regardless of his motives, the sign only says that he can't speak Spanish. No law against that. Yet.

[denuseri]

Yes, you misunderstood. There were some states (North Carolina was one, up until 1971) that made mixed-race marriages ILLEGAL. The feds declared these laws to be discriminatory and stepped in to force states to accept such marriages. The situation is exactly analogous to the rights for gays to marry. I would think that the feds would require ALL states to recognize gay marriages which were performed legally in another state. It might be possible for a state to prohibit such marriages from occurring in their state, but I cannot see them ignoring legal marriages from other states. Not without causing serious legal, and moral, issues.

Thanking Sir for clarifying what I was trying to say.

[Thorne]

Thanking Sir for clarifying what I was trying to say.

You're welcome. It's nice to see that, despite some differences, we can find ourselves on the same side occasionally.