Innate or Learned?

[Katmandu]

Although, I did read a rather gruesome story about horny zombies in the Library the other day.....

Anyway, I was a Psych Major in College, until my Junior year, when in order to pass the classes, all I had to do was "agree" with and mimic my Professors' opinions (aka professional certainty). Well, needless to say, I did not, could not, and dropped out of college until I could find my true calling, because the Professors were all obviously and idiotically (in my humble opinion!) quite wrong! Psychological answers are, and always have been subjective. Just like the question in this thread- Nature vs. Nurture.

So far, nobody has approached the subject of "Switches". How does one explain that away? Or, how about all of us subs in here that are extremely agressive/ dominant in real life, but submissive in BDSM? It's almost the same as being a Switch. Now, the explanation for this query, perhaps, lies in the acceptance of what Woodsman's Game said:

I have come to the conclusion that human behavior in all aspects is both inate (genetic) and learned.

Society (nurturing) has taught us men/women to succeed in real life no matter what it takes, even to the point of being aggressive, or dominent. But in fun time world, our natural tendencies come to the forefront.....

Although, all in all, as much as I WANT to be a very good sub, at times I simply cannot let go of my "professional" personality, and this wreaks havoc in the bedroom with my Dom.....*boohoo* just ask him, we've been "on the outs"/ confused/ fighting for the last 3 days! And the guy can't figure out what the Hell to do with a rebellious slave......poor Master!

[erisv]

with each post i type i can just see people nodding at the "opinionated wench" tag under my name and now you know why it's there! anyway i just can't resist the urge to say something and until there is a gag for keyboards i will throw my thoughts up and pray i don't offend anyone too badly.

i agree with most of what has been said about behavior being both innate and learned and i'd like to touch on the subject of switches for just a moment. speaking as an outsider looking in on this (i'm submissive to the core despite my loud mouth but have friends that switch) i would guess that they probably have innate tendencies one way or the other as most of us do but that perhaps their own biology is more evenly balanced toward moderation in temprament then a Dominant or submissives. or perhaps as someone else said in another post - sorry don't remember who or where at the moment and am too lazy to flip pages looking - their "nurture" clashed with their "nature" giving them learned and biological basis' for both sides of the whip.

any switches out there wanna play along and give us an answer???

for myself i've pretty much always been a submissive and fought like hell against it due to my upbringing until recently and i can say i have never felt a sense of relief and....wholeness, like the one i experienced when i gave myself over to this part of my nature under the ever so tormenting guidance of a friend of mine. but that's another story for a different thread and i think i've probably bored y'all enough at this point.

jen

[Pandora's Box]

When I first got into this and started learning about things, I went in at the submissive angle. It appealed to the fantasies that I had. However, as I learned more and more... I knew that I wasn't quite your regular subbie. Yes I do love being a submissive. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of it. But... when push comes to shove... much of it depends on my mood.

I've always been dependant on my mood for many things in my life. This is not to say that I am flaky or unreliable. I can and do force myself to go against my mood for the necessities of life as they are required. But when it comes to bdsm... it is something I want to enjoy. And for me to enjoy it, I have to be allowed to follow my moods.

Anyway... back to the story. After about a year of exploration and learning, I encountered two different doms in real life that I spent a good amount of time with learning and talking. Both were quick to recognize within me what I have barely begun to explore myself.

In fact one of them even encouraged me to spread my wings and get some real life practice. Which I did do. To be honest... I was flying high off the experience. It didn't work out in the long run... but I loved seeing him prostrate before me doing as I bid. I also got the opportunity to learn that I give a mean spanking and I really like to do that too.

Since then, I've played several times on line but took myself out of the local scene since it just... wasn't my bag.

Now, for the submissive side of me. *Sigh* I get gushy mushy squishy and subbie like for the love of the right dominant man. It has to involve love. I just can't be a submissive without affection. But I do love to please the man I love.

There are times when my submissive and dominant natures do battle. It took me the better part of 8 months to work through some of the worst of it. I was ready to walk away altogether. The confusion was that overwhelming.

I had to come to terms with exactly how far into either I will go. I find myself, as a dominant, much more likely to respect the subs limits and make sure they are treated with human dignity. Which does tend to limit me at this point as many male subs seem to prefer harsher treatment than I am capable of dishing out.

As a submissive, I need to know that I will not be dehumanized and that what is done, is done with affection and love. For example, my hard limits would be things like serving as furniture or sharing. I can also sniff out a poser dominant so fast that they're head spins.

It is all very much so tied in to my nature. I've had submissive thoughts for as long as I can remember. I've also always been very much so my own person. Some submissives can do the mind, body and heart. I can do body and heart. But not mind. Which is odd, because I do tend to get into the mental aspects of submission and tend to know how to elicit them.

But then perhaps that is not such a strange thing as I battled myself for quite some time in my mind about this whole thing.

[somewriter]

After a little while of starting to have sexual fantasies, I found that some began to feature an element of me being helpless or controlled. I had no idea what bdsm was, it just sort of happened. So innate would be the category that it fell into. I then found that bdsm encompassed what these desires were, and hence it was labelled. But then when I (finally!) began to act on/out these desires, I toyed with domming. Turns out I quite like the idea of that too. And now on the subbie task feature in the forum I seem to be domming, and really enjoying it. But I think was innate too, I just hadn't realised it.

On a side note though I'm not sure I am as true a bdsmer as some. While I gain pleasure from domming and subbing it is invariably because I enjoy the situation I am in as a sub, or I enjoy the idea of the situation I am putting a sub in, rather than the deep feelings of submission/domination in relation to the other person. But maybe this would change if I met the "right" person as it were. Just an observation.

P.S. this post may appear twice. If it does, apologies.

[csr]

This is indeed a fascinating thread. I think it's because everybody in a kink lifestyle has at sometime questioned why they are the way they are.

Speaking from my own experience, I believe it to be a biological thing. I remember at a very young age being extremely "interested" in any TV shows that showed anybody tied up or restrained in any way. I couldn't take my eyes off Mr. Brady of the Brady Bunch stuck in the stocks... little knowing that it was because twenty-something years later I would be excited to have the same thing happen to me. This was LONG before puberty or any thoughts of anything sexual had crossed my mind.

I've read that gays statistically rarely have gay siblings. I think this would point towards a biological, rather than environmental cause. (I know that it is not the same thing, but there could be parallels).

Honetly, if I could choose my lot in life, I doubt that I would choose to be a sub male. I accept though, that that is what I am and I know deep inside that there is nothing I could do to change how I feel.

...my two cents.

[zig]

I remember in nursery school, this boy used to play some game where he would tie me to the bookcase. I resisted, of course, but secretly loved that game. My friends and I would tie each other to chairs in the basement and see how well caught we could ge each other. We were maybe 8 at the time.

And movies, TV, books containing someone torturing someone, especially whipping, or tying them up, were very very interesting. Tingle in the blood interesting. Not even hit puberty, this was interesting.

So here I am.

[Barton]

I had never really thought BDSM at all when I was growing up. Through most of adult life it was only a "kinky" way to occasionally have sex. However, when my wife mentioned to me that she wanted to submit to me totally and be my slave, I knew that it felt right. We talked it over and immediately started. I would imagine that we both were meant to live this way, it seems totally natural to us both.
So after all that is said, I would say that it is something that is innate, then we learn.
Barton.