yeah..pleasure AND pain is the key to it - mixing them together can be a big help even if the pain itself does not bring direct pleasure - basically, distract them somewhat! *smile*

but take it slow...you never really know what a sub/slave can endure or learn

and remember, as tough as it might seem to moderate your desire to really let them have it, for the sub the point is submission - they're submitting to the pain and the key thing is what's in their head...its good for us Doms to learn to appreciate that even if we have fantasies about drawing blood or leaving huge welts

and lastly for me...pain is a strange thing and so are people's attitudes to it - I used to see a woman who was very much not able to accept canes...but severe biting sould prodice very strong orgasms and she also loved our attempts at fisting (though other women surely would find that far too uncomfortable)...so try to be flexible or creative about what 'pain' means in your play

have fun

J