Good morning all, as a newbie to the scene myself, I'm in no position to offer opinions, but isn't the whole grovelling thing part of what makes some subs the subs they are? If a dom/me were to grovel for any reason I can imagine that they'd lose the respect of the one who is their sub. And I apologize lily. You made some good points but they were hard to concentrate on with your avatar right next to the text. My eyes kept wandering. I must learn to train my eyeballs better.