Gay Marriage?

[OttifantSir]

I wish I had seen this thread sooner (at least about 4 weeks ago, when it was fresh)

Back to the scheduled program.

I have two lesbian, one bisexual and one gay friend (don't have many real-life friends, sad to say). They are by far surpassing most of my other friends (exception for the friend I call brother). One of the lesbians I call sister.
These have not voiced any concern about getting married, or a desire to "shake the foundation" for other people. But I believe as they get older and find someone they wish to share their life with, they wish to have the same rights regarding medical, legal and moral decisions as every married heterosexual couple, regarding themselves and any possible children.

Marriage, whether it is between man and woman, or individuals of the same sex, will always be filled with insecurity, discussions, disagreements, give-and-take, simply put: Perils. Many people in this world mistakes to be in love, or infatuated (whichever suits best here), as True Love. The first blissful encounters can make you so in love you think this will last forever. You can build up a dream, a fantasy, an entire life with someone. But just look at the attachment to this reply. It's taken from this forum, but I don't remember where, and if people here, and the author doesn't mind, I would rather attach it.
It's about the fantasy and real life of BDSM. This illustrates quite nicely an analogy to this topic.
What we humans have always had trouble of realising, is that a fantasy is just that; a fantasy. A fantasy will never last. It may be revised, but it will never be the same again.

So, why do some assume that same-sex marriages will be any different from heterosexual marriages, except the obvious: The sex-act? I have prejudices against gay men. I am not ashamed to say that. I am a bit more watchful when someone professes to me they are gay. I always think about whether they may be flirting with me. I have no interest in men as sexual partners. I know this is ridiculous. I know they aren't secretly plotting to have me drugged and made a sex-slave for them. But I also know I use it as a gauge for myself: Do I come off as gay? So, it is a mixed emotion. I want to be found attractive, but at the same time I don't want to break someone's dream by having to proclaim to them that I am a heterosexual.

To me, same-sex marriage has nothing to do with the church or religion at all. Here in Norway we have a National Church, but they have no power. They have the power to voice their opinions, which often is enough power, but true power in the sense of forbidding something or making something legal, they are powerless. Even here in Norway, where the state and the church are united, the church aren't allowed to marry people. They may bless the union, but you can't be married without the state's approval. You have to have a "license".
As MsUther has said, we have this debate here too, and I am getting sick of it. The debate. Why do a few people have the right to choose what some people may do as long as it's not harmful to others? My parents never had a church wedding. They went to a registrar and had it done. They were considered man and wife with equal rights to decide over themselves and eachother as well as us children. They were married.
No religion was involved. So, I keep wondering why this can't happen for same-sex couples? It was called a marriage for my mother and father without the blessing of the church, so why shouldn't it be called that for same-sex couples? The Norwegian word for wedding has no religious connotations either. The modern form is BRYLLUP, derived from its Norse form BRUDLAUP. The English translation is something like "Bridal Visit". This word has been in use in Norway in several centuries before Norway was christianed. The word in itself has no religious feelings about it. So, that argument won't fly in Norway.

I cannot truly understand the people opposed to same-sex marriage. To me, they are just old-fashioned, or to use another word: Archaic. But not archaic enough. Throughout history, mainly the ancient Greek society (I know this best of them), a wife was a necessity, something kept at home, for begetting children and keeping the house in order. The men would go to public baths and enjoy themselves in the company of, and with, other men.

True, no marriages existed, but homosexuality was encouraged rather than DIScouraged. This changed somewhere along the way. Somewhere along the way, it became "unnatural", even if the nature itself is abundant with examples of the opposite.

To me, and as far as I have witnessed in this thread, the general consensus (not the unanymous consensus) seems to be that marriage and wedding is about love and security, not about sex. It's a part of marriage off course, but it's not (generally) why you marry someone, or in some cases, choose to initiate a partnership.

I have not heard of such incidents here in Norway, and what I know of the world, I generally get from TV, and that usually means America. But I am certain something similar to an episode I watched of ER, has happened. Two elderly men had been a couple for over twenty years. One of them was now dying of some cancer disease I believe. The one dying had offspring before he accepted his homosexuality. This offspring had not talked to him after he proclaimed his sexual orientation some time in the past. Now he was laying on his death bed, and all he wanted was to share his last moments in life with the love of his life, but his family wouldn't let him. They drove the healthy one away with rude remarks and a hint at the fact that he wasn't family. He wasn't married to their father, he had no rights there. He was a mental disease their father had gotten in his old age.

To me, that episode summed up quite nicely what same-sex couples strive for: Acceptance. The acceptance that they are not abnormal, that they are not second-class citizens. That they have just as much right to be with their love at the death bed as any of their biological family. It's been a while since I watched this episode now, so I am not sure if this is true, but I seem to remember there was a DNR-order written by the one dying, but that order wasn't found until after he had been hooked up to a respirator. Now someone had to decide whether or not to shut it off. The dying one off course wanted it to end, and he had entrusted this to his love. The family denied this request. Same-sex couples want to be able to comply with the wishes of their loved one.

This is not directly related to this topic, but has some merit to it anyway: Some time ago there was a debate in Kansas I believe, if the Creationist Theory (theology) should be a subject of the science education, along with Evolution. The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster sent a letter to the school board stating that they wanted their belief to be included in science class too. Based on evidence, their belief, their theory was just as right as both the others. One woman of the school board stated that it was a serious offense to mock God. To which one of the Spaghetterians replied: Why? Isn't it presumptuous of you to be offended in God's stead?

People of religion use their religion to mask their true feelings, I believe: They are hurt that others don't believe as they do, therefore they use religion to make you feel like you are doing something bad.

Same-sex marriage is not even mentioned in the Bible, except for one verse that I know of. Leviticus (3rd Book of Moses) 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

But if we shall follow the Bible line for line, we shall each and every day sacrifice an animal and burn it so that God may heed the smell for it pleases Him. When was the last time a Christian sacrificed an animal?

Back to topic, those last few paragraphs are better suited for Religion And Philosophy.

Same-sex marriage should not be of any concern to any religious body. They have the power to choose not to admit them to their congregation if they so pleases, but in my mind, the state should legalise it, legislate it, so that noone is being discriminated against based solely on their sexual preference.

(I fear I have awakened a sleeping dragon now )