Global Warming/Climate Change

[TomOfSweden]

Besides, why not recycle?

I saw a Penn and Teller episode of Bullshit on this. According to them, only recycling aliminium cans saves carbon emission. All other types of recycling, including paper ultimatly ends up in adding to the polution. Collecting and reprocessing paper is less cost efficient than cutting down trees. And the paper industry won't make the trees disapear, since they continously plant new trees.

The people who are making the Amazonas disapear are poor indians using the ancient farming methods of burning down areas of forest, because they can't afford fertilizers.

I haven't read any scientific reports on recycling, so that TV show is the sum total of my "expertese"

[Qmoq]

I haven't read any scientific reports on recycling, so that TV show is the sum total of my "expertese"

That's the way I feel sometimes - the media bombards us with "facts", but it's only when we experience something for ourselves - like nk_8950 did - that we actually believe that something's wrong.

If you don't believe that the world is getting hotter (on average), you have your head in the sand - there are indisputable temperature readings that show this. The question is... what's causing it? My current position is that there are severe problems, and it's too odd to be a coincidence that it happens in the half-century that we really hit the fossil fuels hard. I don't have proof of this... but at the same time the "it's the volcanos" people certainly don't convince me the other way.

As for those people who think that recycling is bad... the largest man-made object in the world is Fresh Kills landfill site, a rubbish dump on Staten Island, New York... and it's been closed since 2001 (source: QI, a respected BBC program for smart-alecs). If we could find a way to dump less crap, or even better get rid of the crap that's there, that has to be a good thing, no matter what Penn and Teller say.

Q

[TomOfSweden]

That's the way I feel sometimes - the media bombards us with "facts", but it's only when we experience something for ourselves - like nk_8950 did - that we actually believe that something's wrong.

If you don't believe that the world is getting hotter (on average), you have your head in the sand - there are indisputable temperature readings that show this. The question is... what's causing it? My current position is that there are severe problems, and it's too odd to be a coincidence that it happens in the half-century that we really hit the fossil fuels hard. I don't have proof of this... but at the same time the "it's the volcanos" people certainly don't convince me the other way.

It would hold up if the average temperature 1000-1300 wouldn't be above todays temperature. They hardly burned any fossil fuels at all back then. There's no correlation between carbon emissions and mean temperatures. All we've got is one Swedish researchers theory from the 70'ies that still has never been confirmed.

Since none of the scientists are certain about anything regarding temperatures, the field is open for any loud-mouthed moron to make a stand unoposed. Nobody can say they're wrong. Enviromentalists arguments tend to be so emotional. It's like, "if you don't recycle you hate nature". Which is just bollocks, but everybody seems to buy into the rhetoric.

edit: sorry about that. I checked. The temperatures are higher today than they where 1000-1300 ago. oops. I need to read a bit more.

As for those people who think that recycling is bad... the largest man-made object in the world is Fresh Kills landfill site, a rubbish dump on Staten Island, New York... and it's been closed since 2001 (source: QI, a respected BBC program for smart-alecs). If we could find a way to dump less crap, or even better get rid of the crap that's there, that has to be a good thing, no matter what Penn and Teller say.
Q

You're forgetting that we can put soil on top of a landfill and make it into nature again. And in a couple of hundred years it'll be all recycled naturally. That is what is being done today with landfills. It's the whole idea and it's not a problem. The available landfill space is in fact infinate. Because we'll never run out of new ground to fill up.

Finding a way to dump less crap is always good, since energy efficiency is always in everybodies best interest.

[Guest 91108]

You're forgetting that we can put soil on top of a landfill and make it into nature again. And in a couple of hundred years it'll be all recycled naturally. That is what is being done today with landfills. It's the whole idea and it's not a problem. The available landfill space is in fact infinate. Because we'll never run out of new ground to fill up.

Finding a way to dump less crap is always good, since energy efficiency is always in everybodies best interest.

It may be fine to turn it to nature , but usually it is bought by developers who care not what for nature and build their cheap ass subdivisions on it.
Charge you a fortune then you find out why you are sunk -- ie:
I think you should buy landfill property so you can experience the problems they are having with them if you think they are a good idea.
You have the material decomposing and so forth in the ground releasing gases.
You have the sinking of the land as the landfil material decays it creates sink holes. That causes foundation problems with the building's structures. Becomes so expensive to fix often the homes are abandoned.
The landfill property value drops as soon as the problems begin to surface and are near impossible to resale.

And those are just a couple of the local issues that i know of them.. i'm sure there are more.

bottom line is landfills are not the answer for us or nature.

[TomOfSweden]

It may be fine to turn it to nature , but usually it is bought by developers who care not what for nature and build their cheap ass subdivisions on it.
Charge you a fortune then you find out why you are sunk -- ie:
I think you should buy landfill property so you can experience the problems they are having with them if you think they are a good idea.
You have the material decomposing and so forth in the ground releasing gases.
You have the sinking of the land as the landfil material decays it creates sink holes. That causes foundation problems with the building's structures. Becomes so expensive to fix often the homes are abandoned.
The landfill property value drops as soon as the problems begin to surface and are near impossible to resale.

And those are just a couple of the local issues that i know of them.. i'm sure there are more.

bottom line is landfills are not the answer for us or nature.

But we've got massive amounts of land we aren't using for anything. Why not use them.

[nk_lion]

I saw a Penn and Teller episode of Bullshit on this. According to them, only recycling aliminium cans saves carbon emission. All other types of recycling, including paper ultimatly ends up in adding to the polution. Collecting and reprocessing paper is less cost efficient than cutting down trees. And the paper industry won't make the trees disapear, since they continously plant new trees.

The people who are making the Amazonas disapear are poor indians using the ancient farming methods of burning down areas of forest, because they can't afford fertilizers.

I haven't read any scientific reports on recycling, so that TV show is the sum total of my "expertese"

You have a point TOS. Actually, I don't know the full effects of recycling using those recyling facilities, so I won't comment on that method more.

But recycling doesn't necessarily mean sending of bottles, cardboards and paper to those plants. Reuse plastic bags or paper bags, join a freecycle group (people give away stuff that they don't need for free), you'll be surprised how many people would make do with an old microwave with an analog timer. I use cardboards to lay around the roots of my plants in my backyard to prevent weeds from growing rather then buy some plastic from Home Depot.

Just a bit of imagination would reduce household waste by a lot, and maybe save you some money as well.

And perhaps you can get a second opinion about the advantages of recyling other then the Penn and Teller episode.