Yes and deedy a fat thread. Ill try to be brief too.

Reading through the thread it seems to me the differences come down to where you put the quotes in ' "trained" as a submissive ' from LD's post.

For ' "trained" as a submissive ' the key word is trained, for me this phrase means learning some some physical aspect that can be used as part and parcel of their submission. An example form my history would be a person interested in corsets and deportment training, and not part of a relationship, who seeks out this type of training for personal reasons and future use in a relationship. Or the submissive who in a relationship seeks out someone to train them in the Japanese tea ceremony to as a gift for their Dom. This would fall in the category of teacher and student and the learning of the "business", to use a theatre term.

If you move the quotes so you have ' "trained as a submissive" ' you have something else entirely. Here submissive becomes the key word and for my money this is done between the Dom and sub, or group in poly relationships. As this, for me, is something of an individual experience, unique to the people, time and place. An example would be an experienced sub entering a new relationship. While they have been trained by others our relationship is different then what went before and unique to us. Additional training would required.

I feel we have seen some good discussion on both here.

Thanks LD for the visual in your post that got me thinking on this and the good words from all the rest that helped flush it out.