Questions on collars

[usafmedic22]

Sir and I were talking about collars last night, and our views on their meaning and significance. Since I am very new to the lifestyle, I am interested in hearing the opinion of others, in all roles. I am going to attempt to explain my views, but please keep in mind that I am very new, and I am not trying to offend anyone or step on anyone’s toes, I’m just tossing it out there to try and help clear up any misconceptions that I have. (And forgive me for rambling)

One of the major hang ups that I’ve had recently is the submissive versus slave debate. Many things that I’ve been told/read about slaves does not appeal to me at all. I guess one of the biggest questions that I need opinions on is What is the difference between a slave and a collared submissive? To me, there’s a big difference. It seems to me that slaves give up much of their individuality, and their independent thought; that their entire worth is dependent on their Dom(me). IMO, a collared submissive retains her individuality, and is much happier collared by their Dom(me) than they would be alone, but does not lose any of their worth in being alone. Another major distinction to me is the idea of a slave being her Master’s property. That makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, as I wouldn’t take kindly to being told I’m property of someone else. It bothers me because I feel that it reduces me to an inanimate object. I understand that some submissives/slaves enjoy that feeling, but I myself do not. Here’s another example of my view of the differences. I have been told that a slave is very restricted in what they do/say. Things like using the bathroom, etc, have to be requested. I can understand if my Sir and I were at a party, or in conversation, I would certainly ask if he’d mind excusing me for a minute. But if we were just alone in the house or something, I’d probably let him know I’d be right back, but I wouldn’t necessarily ask permission to go to the bathroom. Forgive me, but if I have to go I have to go….lol.

Sir and I are in agreement that a collar is a serious commitment, and has far reaching implications. What those exact implications are, and how far it reaches into the relationship, I’m still unclear on. Overall, I guess I really have two questions that I’m trying to answer…

What is the difference between a collared submissive and a slave?

What changes when a submissive is collared by his/her Dom(me)?

Again, forgive my rambling, and thank you in advance for your help.

medic

[wingsofanangel]

to be honest I think that it really depends upon the Dom and sub. For every couple those terms could mean something different. I tend to believe very closely as you do. But some may take a lighter meaning to the word slave...or even for it to mean the same thing as a sub.

I think really the only way to discover what it means is to have it applied towards you and find out how it makes you feel, what the implications are, how its effects you and your Dom.

I like the term submissive better than slave, however there are times I enjoy being called a slave. As a submissive, there are many ways in which you are a slave to your Master. Does this have to be negative? No, not at all. People can be slaves to.... music... hobbies... food.. etc. Why not a person? Its does not have to suggest an unwanted servitude, only if thats what you and your Dom decide thats what it means for you.

As far as being collared vs. uncollared... nothing -really- changes.... many things stay the same. BUT.. things like trust, bonds, love, can grow. Often times this is when a D/s choose to focus on one another and no longer play with others (unless it is an open relationship)..... more terms may be agreed upon, more training, greater tasks and expectations. BUT with all of that comes much more loyalty, trust, love, etc... you become closer.

Its similiar to the change of dating to marriage. Nothing realllllly changes, the changes are small, but signifigant, meaningful..

Thats what it all means to me anyway.

I would suggest you find out what being a sub and a slave truely mean to you.. without the stereotypes that accompany them, because all things in this lifestyle can be tailored to fit you and your needs with the help of a crafty Dom.

So don't settle on one thing.. describe what you want and need and go from there.. then you will find your place.


I hope that helps.. :/

anya

[MajesticFae]

I agree with wings.

[TomOfSweden]

The collar is a symbol, and as with all symbols we can charge it with what ever we like.

My slave has a dog collar which off-course is because the collar is associated with her being like my dog. Obedient and grateful no matter how harshly I treat and discipline her. And above all, we do love our pets don't we?

The difference is up to you. In a relationship it's the two participants who make the rules.

When my slave got her collar it was like an engagement ring. Very powerful, but nothing changed. We didn't behave any differently and our commitment to each other was the same.

[Eponine]

Hi USA-

I think Wings and Fae and Tom are right- it is just exactly what you and your Sir decide it all is.

But I did want to comment on the slave/ submissive debate...

It's funny, b/c before I ever knew there was a BDSM community, I always dreamed of being somebody's slave (man or woman)- always using that word to myself.

Then, I discovered all this online stuff (around ..22 or so), and got the impression "slave" was a 4-letter-word, so I switched to "submissive", though I never really liked it. But I had understood from many people a slave has no rights, etc... and is the other things you described... which seems to mean that they will allow themselves to be abused.

But I think that's where there's a misconception. A slave does not have to have an abusive Master (or Mistress).

So now, recently, I've met a man who shares all the original thoughts and feelings I had discovered in myself at a very young age, but had to stuff away because I thought it was impossible to be someone's slave.

So I just wanted to share with you my Master's, my sister's, and my view of being a slave-
no, technically we do not have any "rights"- we have given them to Him (and honestly I am still learning, it's a process, though it feels good, it doesn't always come easily, having had to learn survival skills in this world).

But He does not, and I believe will never, abuse that gift. People debate about service being a need or a gift... bla bla, well, yes it's a need I have, but it's still a gift because I will not be just anybody's slave. And it is a gift for Him to be my Master too, of course.


"It seems to me that slaves give up much of their individuality, and their independent thought; that their entire worth is dependent on their Dom(me)."

I have struggled with this concept myself, but so far ( in the very short time it's been), Master didn't just pick anyone to be his inanimate collared property... no, He picked me because He likes my personality and individuality...
Though, if you mean, lose your individuality as in being a separate unit- that's true, but that's so in a marriage... and I don't want to be separate from Him... but it doesn't mean He doesn't hear and encourage and appreciate my own opinions on things, for me to critically think and give input on situations...

About my worth being dependent on Him... well, after 31 years, if I finally found someone to make me feel incredibly valuable, so be it. Even if it's not exactly acceptable in our society, the truth is I wasn't getting it on my own, no matter what I tried.

"I have been told that a slave is very restricted in what they do/say. Things like using the bathroom, etc, have to be requested."

This is totally up to the individual Master/ Mistress. And it could be so with a Dom/ sub as well. But, no in my case, generally, joie and I speak freely- as I said, Master welcomes our opinions anyway. But we just must be respectful- as in I couldn't/ wouldn't sit there and argue and raise my voice (again, a learning process for me now... lol.. yes, mari, mari is quite contrary at times lol), etc...

Sometimes, I think, even if I were a vanilla girl, I would wholeheartedly want to be this man's slave, just to be with Him, because He is so wonderful.

Anyway, I'm sure I rambled as well- it's 4:00 in the morning, and I'm woken up by a roommate clanking around dishes...

But, I just wanted to give my view on it that I don't believe slaves, being property without rights, are or should be treated as inanimate, abused, or lacking individuality. I think that's the Master or Mistress's problem, then, and I wouldn't consider them true Masters or Mistresses if they don't know how to treat a person who is willing to do whatever they wanted and give up their whole lives to them.

I am just so tearfully lucky that I met the man I did. He really is a master, my Master... and I couldn't imagine giving any less to Him. And I wouldn't want Him to want any less than everything I could possibly give Him...

Wow... i hope this makes some kind of sense.. .lol.

I may have gone off on a tangent, I apologize.. but I had been thinking recently about this slave/ sub debate and wanted to ask some questions, post some two cents.

Either way, USA, good luck with your collaring (as Wings said, that's just like getting married, it's still the same relationship, hopefully with a foundation to keep growing stronger) and your relationship! Congrats as well!

[Warbaby1943]

Talk it over between the two of you and as everyone else has said make it fit what you need. Give up only the control you feel comfortable giving up. If anything is forced from or on you you could end up resenting the relationship.

What I find most rewarding is being able to talk things over before, after, or even during any activities. As long as you both are happy with what you decide it will work out fine for you.

A collar is what you want it to be and what you want it to mean. Ours is a ring and it means commitment to each other in all we can commit from what our lives allow.

I won't get into the slave vs. submissive debate except to say I personally don't like the term slave.

[annie]

The term slave it just that a term... just as submissive is no more then a term.

i know "subs" who are actually slaves (from my perspective) and "slaves" who make me question at times if they are even subs because of how much freedom (one again from my perspective) they are given. The term that fits best for your relationship is what is important, nothing more. Just as the rules established by your relationship is what is important.

i do need to say that "slaves" do not become inanimate objects, give up much of their individuality, and their independent thought or have their entire worth is dependent on their Dom(me). That may be the "impression" that is given but 99.9% of the "slaves" i know still have themselves and make the choice, in all things, to follow the lead of their Dominate. i personally think that makes them understand their entire worth more so. Because of the training, dedication and commitment needed to give that type of free service. And yes, i am a firm believe that even a slave is giving their services freely... if they didn't want to be a slave for that Dom/me, they wouldn't be there.

The slave/sub debate is an old one and as everyone knows just a matter of definition which needs to be worked out in advance with one's Dominate.

As to the collar... it is a symbol. Just like a wedding ring and means a higher level of commitment, trust, etc. But, once again, it is what each couple views the symbol. i know some who believe in velcro collars, which can be easily removed when the next "more interesting" person comes along and some who believe in the permanent collar, that will never be removed. It is what works for each person/couple in a relationship, as long as no one is hurt unnecessarily, etc. and enters the relationship with a full understanding of what the collar means.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Flaming_Redhead]

What is the difference between a collared submissive and a slave?

These definitions were obtained from Wikipedia. I hope this helps to alleviate your misgivings. It can be hard to come to terms with your innermost desires versus what your brain tells you is "right." The great thing about having a mind of your own is that you can assimilate the information people give you and either accept it or reject it depending on what works best for YOU.

A submissive is one who enjoys having any of a variety of BDSM practices performed upon them by a dominant; or one who holds a submissive position within a relationship based upon dominance and submission (D/s). This enjoyment can spring from a simple desire for submission or an enjoyment of the interplay of wills involved in such a scenario. A submissive is also referred to as a "sub", where the dominant in a D/s relationship is the 'Dom.'

The main difference between a submissive and a bottom is that the submissive ostensibly does not give instructions, although they do set limits on what the Dominant can do.

There are also indications that submissives substantially outnumber Dominants[citation needed], in both males and females. Professional Dominants provide stimulatory services (which may or may not include sex) for those unable to find a compatible partner for this activity.

There are some indications that preference in D/s activities follows a 'compensatory' pattern[citation needed], with people who have much power and responsibility in real life often preferring a submissive role; no hard scientific data to either confirm or reject this hypothesis seem to exist, however.

In many BDSM communities, there is a distinction between a submissive and a slave. In this context, a slave's goal is surrender and obedience. In contrast, a submissive tends to expect some gratification in return for his or her submission.

Slave is a term often used in BDSM to connote a specific form of submissive. A sexual roleplay or consensual slave could also be a masochist or bottom, but this is not always the case.

Connotatively it refers to highly committed domination and submission (commonly abbreviated as D/s) relationships, as a person who has surrendered their personal property and freedoms to another, who has become the property or chattel of their owner(s). This term is widely used, as it has a certain self-affirming weight.

Some practitioners feel the difference between submissive and slave is the degree of submission. However, many who are involved in Master/slave relationships see the difference as one in kind, not in degree. In particular, some slaves do not have a naturally submissive personality, but simply choose to surrender their will and volition to another.

It should be noted that the Owner/slave relationship is entered into on a strictly consensual basis, without the legal force of historical or modern non-consensual slavery. It is also worth mentioning that the laws of most countries (for example the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution) strictly forbid the practice of slavery.

Various forms of symbolism are sometimes used to affirm the Owner/slave relationship, such as wearing the owner's collar, being registered in a slave register, adopting (sometimes legally changing to) a name chosen by the owner, or engaging in a public declaration or ritualized ceremony of some type. Some people draw up a slave contract that defines the relationship in explicit detail, but these have no legal weight and are therefore not intended to be used in any court of law.

In some traditional rituals, after signing a slave contract, many people celebrate the commitment to the relationship with a collaring ceremony, which can be simple or elaborate and friends are usually invited. The slave then wears a collar, which symbolizes their status. The collar may be an actual piece of neckwear, or may be a bracelet or other piece of jewellery that symbolizes their slavery. These collars are generally never removed unless or until the relationship is dissolved, although some slaves exchange a formal collar for a more subdued (or less obtrusive) one in work and vanilla situations.

There is considerable debate over the exact definition of the word "slave" as it pertains to BDSM. Many people believe that you are a slave if you consider yourself one, whilst others believe one must be in the emotional state of Total Power Exchange or Internal Enslavement for the term to apply.

There are differences of opinion about whether one needs to be currently owned to be identified as a slave. Many in the Mistress/Master-slave community do not feel that ownership is a requirement.

What changes when a submissive is collared by his/her Dom(me)?

That's like asking, "What changes when one gets married?" Nothing....everything. *smiles* Hopefully, the relationship will continue to develop as trust and respect for each other grows, allowing you to explore your desires, fulfill your fantasies and live a life you have only dreamed of....one where you are free to be yourself and encouraged to be totally honest. One in which you are regarded in the highest esteem by your dominant for your service, giving you the confidence to command the respect of others as well as having a healthy self-respect. Of course, this is just my opinion. It all depends on what your expectations are and whether those expectations are voiced and acknowledged/agreed upon. It's usually a good idea to write them down so they can be included in your contract. That way, everyone is in agreement on what is expected. As far as the different stages of collaring as given by Wikipedia, I haven't read about this still being followed by many, if anyone, in today's community. Like I said, it's whatever works best for YOU.

In the old guard leather community there were three stages of collaring. These are still informally followed by some in the BDSM community. The "collar of consideration" was the first and roughly analogous to a pre-engagement ring. This collar could be removed at any time by the submissive with no ill will and the relationship would be ended. The "training collar" is roughly analogous to an engagement ring and indicates a deepening relationship in which the submissive is being prepared by the dominant to serve to the standards the dominant wishes. Again, the submissive may ask to be released but the break is considered more serious and painful for both parties. Finally, the "slave collar" is analogous to a wedding band and at this point the submissive is considered a formal slave and owned by the dominant. In the old guard leather community this was considered permanent with no chance to end unless the submissive was released by the dominant for some exceptional reason. Simple failure of service was not adequate since that showed a failure on the part of the dominant as well as the slave. As with engagement and wedding rings there are traditions with collars in regard to type of materials and colors that are appropriate to each type, usually becoming more elaborate.

[Guest 91108]

Hrmm ..
I consider WV both ringed in marriage and collared permanent as submissive.
I consider Wlg to be more "velcro" collared as i know in time she may grow and we may grow apart. I can accept that.
I think as has been stated above .. each relationship is different and is all up to the discussions between the two.
Both are very workable if worked out ahead of time. And openly discussed when the need arises from either side.

[Masters_diamond]

Hi
I just wanted to say that when my Master collared me,everything changed.This meant that i was his owned property and slave. I have no rights,and yes i have to ask permission for everything.but this is what i wanted,someone to control me and own me.

Masters_diamond < owned by Masterdarkone

[Eponine]

diamond:

just wanted to say i too enjoy the "micromanagement" and i wanted to ask you- as your master's collared property and slave with no rights, do you feel less of a person or individual? I just wanted another slave's input, since usafmedic22 expressed this in her original question.

[Ocean_Soul]

Many issues and questions come down to working it out with your partner this included, as you can see. There are no rules that dictate if someone is called on thing they lose their individuality and if they are called another they do not. Does he treat you like an object or not? Are his ideas on how much you should be controlled make you uncomfortable or wet? It’s important to talk about anything that makes you uncomfortable and come to an understanding of each other. Likewise anything that you think you would enjoy should be discussed as well. And hopefully that understanding will lead to a situation that is both enjoyable and beneficial to you both.

[Masters_diamond]

Hello Mari
As my Masters Owned Slave and Property I guess my answer would be i am a person but i am my Masters property and I have to go by what my Master says no matter what.i belong to my Master. I am a person whom is used by him.i don't feel less of a person,but also i am an object for my Masters use.

Masters_diamond

[ceegee{Benz}]

As people has said in posts before this one...each relationship is different.

I myself am slave to Master Benz...I am his owned property for him to as and when he wishes.
but..........
I am also his equal...his partner...his life.
I wear a fine gold chain around my neck that has never come off...that is my perminant collar. I also have a matching anklet made from the same chain as what is around my neck.
Master asks...I do.
I also wear his ring...making me not just his slave but his wife to be.
Altho being his slave..I do also have opinions and a voice and this Master values and is always asking for my imput on things. I have not lost full independancy...not yet anyway but if I want to do something I still have to ask permission for.
Master does not want me to loose any part of my individuality as it is who I am...and it is who I am that made him fall in love with me in the first place.
But...and i am rambling
my soul and my totally being belongs to him

[cadence]

I understand that each couples views on collared submisive vs. slave are based on thier own opinions and ideas.

I have a bit of difficulty understanding the control part of the relationship.
Forgive me if I am hijacking this thread in a different direction, but I was curious about some things.

My interpretation is that a person who loses thier individuality regardless of whether they are an owned slave or submissive is borderlining on more of an abusive relationship. That is just my own opinion.

My curiousity lies in what a sub or slave gives up in the relationship. I am not referring to anything pertaining to any sexual play, but the average daily things vanilla people would not consider asking permission for.

Although my boyfriend and I do not live a D\s relationship, at times I think we borderline it.
While he did guide me and control most of my decisions, he gave me plenty of freedom to do what I pleased. However when I was asked to do something for him, I had never denied any of his requests.
I was happy to do whatever he asked of me, and would even rearrange my schedule to suit him.
Maybe it is because I have that deep seeded need to do this, as I still do, and he appreciates it.
The only thing we lack is any discipline or punishments when I do not do things his way.

So before I start to ramble on more, what are the things a collared sub or slave give up in the relationship, and what are the things you do not have to give up control of.

[_ID_]

medic was looking for some insight on her perceptions on the idea of a collar. The "its what you make of it" she already knew. she was looking for personal views more than politically safe views.

My view of a collar is it states that the bottom/submissive is in a committed relationship.

The dynamic of that relationship is unknown until stated by the bottom. As far as I am concerned, if the sub is collared, and it were to be to me. If she is submissive, then thats just what she is, my committed submissive. Committed to the relationship as we desire it. Committed to submitting to me as I require. On the other hand, if she is slave, and I am talking 24/7 slave, not bedroom slave or playtime slave. If she is slave, then her voice in the relationship is valued, but only heeded when I find usefulness in what she has to say. Safe words as a submissive knows them would be reduced in weight, as they would only be for an emergency, not "I can't do this anymore". When I say emergency, I'm talking "either i get to pee, or i steam clean the carpet" kind of emergency. A slave gets only as much personal freedoms as her Master would allow. If that means she doesn't do anything until told to do so, then thats what it is. Personally, I don't like that level of protocol in a relationship. I find it to be time consuming and monotonous.

medic and I are in lengthy discussions about what a collar means to each of us, and what we want in a D/s relationship. It was from these conversations that I told her to pose the question to the forms, get the opinion of some others. Widen the perspective, and then formulate her own views from what information she gathered. Then we talk some more, and figure out what direction we want to go.

ID

[cadence]

Sorry I just got too curious

[usafmedic22]

cadence...no worries hun, ID's post was not a reply to yours, just another post in response to mine. It wasn't a redirect or anything.
Now...onto your questions...maybe me stumbling through them will help me answer mine...who knows so why not?
As far as losing individuality, I understand what you're saying about it bordering on abuse, but I think that is rarely the intent. And coming out of an abusive relationship myself, I can tell you that it's hard to recognize and even harder to tear yourself away from, despite it destroying you...alas but i digress.....
I can't tell you about what a slave/submissive gives up in a D/s relationship, because i'm so new. What I can tell you is that you are describing a personality very similar to mine. I was always the same way with my husband, constantly working to please and appease him, regardless of how those things affected me. I'm not saying yours are detrimental to you as mine were, just that we are similar in that way. In fact, there is a major difference in the fact that he recognizes and appreciates everything you do for him, whereas mine never did.
Anyway, I'm going to shut up now, but I wanted to make sure that you didn't think Sir was trying to redirect you, I've spoken with him and he wasn't. And I wanted to point out that we have some things in common. I'm hoping the responses to this thread will continue, and we can both learn more...
medic

[Ocean_Soul]

she was looking for personal views more than politically safe views.

Did you mean to say "personal views as opposed to general views"?

Because I don't think anyone here being coy for the sake of political correctness.

[_ID_]

No. I meant what I said. People don't voice what they think. So they state the view that is more accepted. It's what you make of it, is not how submissives feel about their own collar. medic was looking for those personal views.

[MrDom]

hey guys here my 2 cents worth I have a slave but it did not start out that way. It progressed to that stage. I started out as just her Dominate she wore no real collar in any fashion. We slowly progress in thtat direction she wanted a collar so I had her make a simple 1/34 inch wide collar black. simple just a snap to keep it on her neck. I knew what she wanted to be after I made her wear a leather collar after a few months. Medic it all depends onwhat you want the collar too mean. What you and you Dominate wants. I agree with ID . But do not be surprized that eventaullay not that it means it will depending on if you too live together or not. But mainly how you feel medic that at some point you start heading more to being slave than sub even tho you think you are still sub.


cadence to help with your question a little it depends on personallity of the sub. My pet is more of a slave than a sub she needs boundries and she wants many things in her like to be decide by her dominate. Collar sub gives up less than a slave. A sub personallity want to keep more of herself. A collar slave has a more rooted personality of being a slave want needs desires boundries want too be told when to do sometime more restictions tha a sub. But just remember which i do she is still the women i love and protect and even her being my slave her well being in everything comes first to me.




MrDom

[annie]

As to the first question...

i'm still back to the point that it doesn't matter what the person is called in the relationship. It is all just a matter of "titles" and semantics. The collar is how you feel about it, period. If you think yourself slave (or have the personality) then no matter what "description" you use you will still function/crave/desire as a slave even if called a sub and vise versa. To be happy call yourself what ever makes you feel better... as long as the way the relationship is established makes you happy.

The understanding that slaves have no opinions, rights, etc. actually annoys me greatly. Personally, i swear that concept came about by some wannabe Dom's who wanted to abuse and control people but wanted an excuse to make the behavior acceptable. (Which really pisses me off... lol.) i know of maybe 1% of relationships that function that way, where both are happy in that type of relationship. Most Doms, that are true and real, WANT the input and require it for open communication, although it is understood that even with the input the final choice, without question, lies with the Dom.

To the second question, as to personal opinion...

i have been collared twice, both times as a slave. Which many here would argue wasn't possible since we never lived together. But, for us and the control they had over me it was as close to living together as possible. (Back to the "semantics" thing again.) Both times to wonderful Doms and yet both times meant different things and i grew in a different fashion from each. Neither were better or worse then the other... as one of the Dom's would have put it... "it was what it was."

The first time i was new to D/s although we have been together for almost a year before i was actually given his collar. Based on circumstances it was a very simple one and one that i could remove if need be. The reason for giving it was simple... i NEEDED to feel more owned to be happy and the collar provided that. It gave me a constant reminder/connection that i needed to grow further and trust further in the relationship due to past experiences. That relationship lasted about 3 or so years. We parted as friends.

Did the first relationship change after i was collared... the rules didn't change, the expectations didn't change but i did change. It solidified what i was and helped me to accept that better and stop struggling against him/me and allowed me to sink further into my submission and the pleasure i received from it.

The second collar was not something i went seeking it just came about naturally. As i believe all collars should. It did change our relationship... but ONLY because until the collar was in place there were certain limits that were placed on the relationship by the Dom for my protection. Those limits changed once the collar was in place and i was able to start serving him more completely. It again was a wonderful experience and one i truly miss. The level of submission was much deeper starting out then with the first relationship due to several factors... the Dom, my growth since the first collar, the level that we both expected/wanted to experience, etc. i came out of that relationship though as a much more sensuous person, a feeling of greater self worth, and a better understanding of what true submission for me is.

Each time my emotions grew deeper, once collared, because of the "security" factor. i was able to completely give without fear of being tossed aside because i knew that the step meant a lot to both of them as well. If anything, both times, it increased my own perceived self worth because i was no longer a "disposable" toy. And, both wanted my input and reasoning, i by no means lost me by being collared, that would have been determental to me and to the relationship, which both Doms recognized. If anything i found more of me because they allowed me the opportunity to say "no" to others without quilt and they ensured that i had the time for me that i was less likely to take, etc. They required that i maintain healthy boundaries which prevented me from getting as lost in taking care of others.

Did they refer to me as their toy and as property? Yes. Did that bother me? Initially with the first one, yes, but that was due more to my own struggle between what i wanted and what i felt was "acceptable" in society. When i finally accepted it as basically a term of endearment it became a sense of pride. Luckily the second Dom didn't have to deal with that portion... lol.

So... much longer post then i intended but that is how i felt/feel about it. Better ID??? *grinz*

[jeanne]

Wow, I really like this thread. I don't have anything to add, but thank all for sharing your thoughts on this intimate, emotional topic.

I hope to be collared someday - many steps between now and then though...

[Ocean_Soul]

No. I meant what I said. People don't voice what they think. So they state the view that is more accepted. It's what you make of it, is not how submissives feel about their own collar. medic was looking for those personal views.

My apologies IDCrewDawg. But if the opinions of others are treated with the contempt, only a 6 word sweeping generalization can provide, I hope you won’t mind if I simply not bother sharing them in the first place.

[ceegee{Benz}]

Since recieving my collar from Master last year...I have become more settled and more content with myself. I know where I belong. For once I know who I am.
as i said before its not just about a sub dom relationship...it is a partnership and relationship as well

[Warbaby1943]

Since recieving my collar from Master last year...I have become more settled and more content with myself. I know where I belong. For once I know who I am.
as i said before its not just about a sub dom relationship...it is a partnership and relationship as well

Basically it all boils down to your last statement which makes it so wonderful. Well stated.

[_ID_]

My apologies IDCrewDawg. But if the opinions of others are treated with the contempt, only a 6 word sweeping generalization can provide, I hope you won’t mind if I simply not bother sharing them in the first place. You clearly know the minds of people better than they do anyway, so no real loss.

No idea where you got the contempt for others thoughts. If your feelings were hurt by my post. I don't apologize, as I state my opinions regardless if they hurt or not. I figure it's better to be honest in how I feel about something, rather than dancing around it.

annie - Yes that was wonderful, thank you!

[Ocean_Soul]

No idea where you got the contempt for others thoughts. If your feelings were hurt by my post. I don't apologize, as I state my opinions regardless if they hurt or not. I figure it's better to be honest in how I feel about something, rather than dancing around it.

*sigh* I'm sending you a PM telling you exactly what I was trying to say. And no, I wasn't hurt.

[cadence]

cadence to help with your question a little it depends on personallity of the sub. My pet is more of a slave than a sub she needs boundries and she wants many things in her like to be decide by her dominate. Collar sub gives up less than a slave. A sub personallity want to keep more of herself. A collar slave has a more rooted personality of being a slave want needs desires boundries want too be told when to do sometime more restictions tha a sub. But just remember which i do she is still the women i love and protect and even her being my slave her well being in everything comes first to me.
MrDom

Thanks for your input.

cadence...no worries hun, ID's post was not a reply to yours, just another post in response to mine. It wasn't a redirect or anything.
Now...onto your questions...maybe me stumbling through them will help me answer mine...who knows so why not?
As far as losing individuality, I understand what you're saying about it bordering on abuse, but I think that is rarely the intent. And coming out of an abusive relationship myself, I can tell you that it's hard to recognize and even harder to tear yourself away from, despite it destroying you...alas but i digress.....
I can't tell you about what a slave/submissive gives up in a D/s relationship, because i'm so new. What I can tell you is that you are describing a personality very similar to mine. I was always the same way with my husband, constantly working to please and appease him, regardless of how those things affected me. I'm not saying yours are detrimental to you as mine were, just that we are similar in that way. In fact, there is a major difference in the fact that he recognizes and appreciates everything you do for him, whereas mine never did.
Anyway, I'm going to shut up now, but I wanted to make sure that you didn't think Sir was trying to redirect you, I've spoken with him and he wasn't. And I wanted to point out that we have some things in common. I'm hoping the responses to this thread will continue, and we can both learn more...
medic

And thanks for clarifying that for me, I thought that maybe by sneaking in my own question, I had overstepped my boundries in someone else's post.
Seeing that I am new to everything, and still trying to understand and learn, I can't really offer any opinions, only those that are based mostly on assumptions.


I think that just_annie explained her feelings towards receiving a collar perfectly. After reading her post I understand the concept of how a sub would feel regarding collars, and ceegee explains that as well in just a simple sentence.

[usafmedic22]

First off...thank you so much annie for posting...your views are very much in line with mine, I just haven't been able to put them into words until now. Thank you soooo much!

The understanding that slaves have no opinions, rights, etc. actually annoys me greatly. Personally, i swear that concept came about by some wannabe Dom's who wanted to abuse and control people but wanted an excuse to make the behavior acceptable. (Which really pisses me off... lol.) i know of maybe 1% of relationships that function that way, where both are happy in that type of relationship. Most Doms, that are true and real, WANT the input and require it for open communication, although it is understood that even with the input the final choice, without question, lies with the Dom.

And just to clarify, my intention was not to annoy/offend anyone by saying that bit about slaves not having rights, etc, just to offer a perception that I've gathered since I began exploring this lifestyle. I agree that in my experience talking with Dom's that they do want the input and open lines of communication, which negates the above statement.

The reason for giving it was simple... i NEEDED to feel more owned to be happy and the collar provided that. It gave me a constant reminder/connection that i needed to grow further and trust further in the relationship due to past experiences.........It solidified what i was and helped me to accept that better and stop struggling against him/me and allowed me to sink further into my submission and the pleasure i received from it.

The second collar was not something i went seeking it just came about naturally. As i believe all collars should. It did change our relationship... but ONLY because until the collar was in place there were certain limits that were placed on the relationship by the Dom for my protection. Those limits changed once the collar was in place and i was able to start serving him more completely. It again was a wonderful experience and one i truly miss. The level of submission was much deeper starting out then with the first relationship due to several factors... the Dom, my growth since the first collar, the level that we both expected/wanted to experience, etc. i came out of that relationship though as a much more sensuous person, a feeling of greater self worth, and a better understanding of what true submission for me is.

Each time my emotions grew deeper, once collared, because of the "security" factor. i was able to completely give without fear of being tossed aside because i knew that the step meant a lot to both of them as well. If anything, both times, it increased my own perceived self worth because i was no longer a "disposable" toy. And, both wanted my input and reasoning, i by no means lost me by being collared, that would have been determental to me and to the relationship, which both Doms recognized. If anything i found more of me because they allowed me the opportunity to say "no" to others without quilt and they ensured that i had the time for me that i was less likely to take, etc. They required that i maintain healthy boundaries which prevented me from getting as lost in taking care of others.

Did they refer to me as their toy and as property? Yes. Did that bother me? Initially with the first one, yes, but that was due more to my own struggle between what i wanted and what i felt was "acceptable" in society. When i finally accepted it as basically a term of endearment it became a sense of pride. Luckily the second Dom didn't have to deal with that portion... lol.

EXACTLY!!! Lemme see if I can stumble through this and explain how I responded to this...
I feel that a collar should be earned...not by performing a certain task or proving submission...but through communication between the Dom and the sub and by the sub's attitude and willingness to submit, and that willingness being obvious. I look forward very much to earning my collar, and the comfort that it will bring knowing that I'm worth it or worthy of it in His eyes. I'm learning to adjust my views on many things, and it's becoming easier for me to dismiss the negative views others may have of me because if my Dom is content with me, and/or proud of me, no one else's opinion matters. Therefore, earning my collar will be a huge source of pride for me, because it's an outward expression of my worth.

annie would you be willing to explain what limitatios you were speaking of when you said that until your collar were in place there were limitations set by your Dom for your protection? I'm trying to wrap my head around this concept, and some examples from you would greately help if you were willing to share them...

It amazes me that you mention the "toy" concept. I have personal experience with that as well. One non bdsm relationship I was in ended abruptly when I began to feel and realize that a toy was all I really was to him. I believe that experience is the reason being referred to as a toy will always raise the hairs on the back of my neck and invoke a negative feeling with me. But, never say never, as I refuse to let past experiences influence a new relationship, as the new person wasn't the one that made me feel that way, and shouldn't be "punished" so to speak, for something he didn't do.

As far as property goes....well....the feelings I associate with that are very difficult for me to pin down to put into words. For some reason I associate being referred to as property to lessening my worth as a submissive. Why? Well, to me it makes me feel less special. He makes me feel very special, and referring to me as property somehow diminishes that. Property/Toys to me are mass produced, replaceable, etc. I don't feel that I'm that way...kinda goes back to wanting that feeling of being one of a kind, and special to him because I'm one of a kind...But please don't think I'm criticizing anyone else for enjoying/liking being referred to that way, as I'm definitely one of the "to each their own" school of thought people. What makes the individual couple happy is all that truly matters, I'm just putting my thoughts into words.

Anyway, I'm going to shut up now, I think I've definitely exceeded my "thoughts for the day" allowance. LOL...