Legalizing Prostitution?

[TomOfSweden]

i don't think it is, actually. Sexual victimisation rates are not generally at 100% in many demographic groups(in the UK for example, they're estimated as being about 33% of women) and when they are, i think that's cause for concern. Are survivors moving into these fields due to emotional problems from their assault? Did they develop substance abuse problems due to their assault and prostitute themselves to pay for them? Were they shunned by their community and took up prostiution due to that? Are the men who frequent prostitues more likely to be abusive? Whatever the reasons, prostitutes are a seriously damaged group and contributing to that by buying their bodies is just disgusting.

Ok, here is more problems. The percentage of women who've suffered sexual asault will off-course vary regarding where you put the limit. If the limit is set at full vaginal intercourse it'll probably be a whole lot lower than 33%.

Your just assuming that prostitutes are a damaged group of people who wouldn't do it if they had a choice. There's quite a few very vocal prostitutes in Germany, (where it's legal) who would disagree. The only reason they don't speak up in Brittain or Sweden, is because it'll make their job more difficult.

The reason anybody would work with prostitution is off-course that it's very well paid in relation to the amount of work done.

But you made your stance pretty clear. You have a moralistic stance where you're saying prostitution is disgusting. But it's no case for anything. You might as well quote the bible.

I hope you agree that in a free society people should be free to make whatever choices they do, no matter how much other people might think it "disgusting"? As long as it isn't rubbed in their faces off-course. Scat sex is legal and is well kept indoors

i see that assumption, that men rape because they aren't getting sex, more than a little fallcious because it assumes that rape is primarily about sex. It isn't. It incoporates sex, sure, but it also incorporates holding down another human being and forcing yourself on them. It assumed rape is about sex when many men in existing sexual realtionships go out and rape random women. They could get consensual sex. They don't want it. They want power.

It's a valid case and I've read plenty of books on psychoanalysis which coroborate this. But lets not get away from the issue. Just becuase rape isn't about sex, doesn't effect the issue of prostitution.

And the answer to that is to leave things as they are or realise that most women in prostiution are there out of desperation, not choice, and need help to get out i.e. better benefits, more support in finding homes/jobs, and not men preying on them for sex when they essentailly can't say no due to their desperation?

Yes, but here is the logical gap. If they didn't get money from prostitution, they'd need to get it from somewhere else, right? If they're addicts and they aren't getting rehab they're fresh out of choices. I wouldn't call a man taking advantage of her predicament as preying on her. This is how capitalism work. If your needs are very high, then you need to raise the cash somehow.

But this is all assuming most prostitutes are crack-heads. Last year I read a report on prostitution in Stockholm done by our crime prevention govornement agency. It concluded that most Stockholm prostitutes where university students, (that's grad school in USA). And yes they did it out of financial desperation. They didn't want to take loans, or work at McDonalds which is highly understandable.

Google "Felicitas Wiegmann" if you want to hear what a very vocal German prostitution proponent and prostitute has to say on the matter.

i'd like to see statistics on that, but even if true, it doesn't make the law fatally flawed. it'd undoubtedly lead to fewer men using the women and those that did so could be prosecuted. If there are fewer men going out to usedesperate women for sex, demand decreases. Are you syaing it was perviosuly illegal only for the prostitute and not the client in Sweden?

No, it has no impact what so ever on the number of men who use prostitutes. There's the same problem with drug laws. When both the buyer and seller are willing, they'll do what it takes to circumvent the law. In Iran they have the death penalty for prostitution, but it's just as prevalent there as anywhere else.

All numbers I have access to are in Swedish.
http://www.bra.se/
All there research is available free on pdf and easy to download. The kink is that you need to know Swedish

Just to be clear on this. This is a govornement agency, they're not allowed to have opinions, only publish numbers. The official Swedish govornement line is the same as yours. But it's not based on science.

i disagree. i'm used to such arguments but they don't sound harsh to me, just more based on a desire to come to a particular conclusion than on the evidence on display. If wanting people to understand that using a woman for sex when she's essentially sick and exploititive is tery eyed, well, why shouldn't it be, considering what these poor women are put through? They need society's help to get out of prostituition, not wishful arguments for legitimising the problem.

I think you're being extremly judgemental without any arguments other than just opinons to back it up.

From the same govorment agency I read a report on trafficking. ie forcibly taking women from where ever and forcing them to work in brothels for no money. The problem here is that it is all based on what the prostituted women say. If they tell the cops that they're forced to be there, they have everything to gain. They may get permanent visa. But if they came there by free will they'll invariably get sent back as an economic immigrant. Not to mention the social stigma. You have to be very careful when you read statistics. The ones who don't get caught we off-course hear nothing about.

I'm not saying all prostitution is great. But until I find any serious arguments against it I don't understand why we should keep it illegal. Right now prostitutes have very weak protection from the law because of it's illegal status. And all arguments I've heard against it so far are all moralistic.

edit: Just so you know. Prostitution isn't and has never been socialy acceptable in Sweden. That's why there's no movement what so ever here toward legalisation. It's not like further south in Europe. No man here would ever at a party suggest going to a prostitute. It just never happens. Not even when they're on holiday in Thailand. They might do it, but they'll never admit to it.