poll for deleting snuff stories

[MasterRJ]

(you know, sadly, I told my self I was gonna read every last post, but low and behold I got to page seven and I just stopped caring...so...)

Here's my two cents on stories that involve snuff and or kids. I use 'em both on internet RPs. I won't lie...I enjoy it. In one recent RP, thirteen year old Halie Moore is abducted by her brother and forced to live as his love slave only to awake and realise it was only a dream. There is a repeat of the dream before Halie goes to see a specialist. The specialist hypnotises her and controls her body, making her dreams worse. It is now that the dreams destroy her good childhood memories. Opening her pressents on Christmas morning she finds the heads of some of her family members and santa decides to play some reindeer games with out helpless heroine. The fact of the matter is, when I RP, my ultimate goal is to violate the psyche of the other person's character. What better way then to make her death a slow and painful sexually humiliating one? Aren't people of younger ages more sensitive to sex crimes? It's been said before, my kink isn't your kink. If my stories fantasies are too extreme for you then learn to deal. They are my fantasies.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Having just read through (most of) this thread, I have to agree with all that Gary says and also with my friend redEva; the above quote from her sums up my feelings perfectly.

Whatever fiction I read is my own choice. In real life, whatever happens between myself and my Owner in private is OUR choice and, as a snuff story might shock and horrify my mother, so my life with my Owner would have just the same effect. Thus, as she is a highly intelligent woman and has obviously 'read the preamble' to our lives, she almost certainly has a good idea about what goes on between Him and me. But she does not 'read the book' and choses not inquire about our private life in just the same way as I don't read stories or books which I feel would upset or nauseate me. It is a real life case of 'Live and Let Live'.

Mind you, the MOST horrific stuff I am forced to read are the questions posed in my tax return forms - no escaping those obscenities!!

Love
Jane.

I am an author and I post on this site and several others .I write snuff and also write other stories and I feel I have the right to do this .One reason is THE BILL OF RIGHTS and the other is I served in combat and fought for that BILL OF RIGHTS.As long as what I write does no harm to another living person I feel it is my right to write what I want and your right to read what you want.So I agree with you.The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.

[MasterRJ]

Ya know I think that crack at the ACLU was un-called for bud. We're not debating politics here, we're debating whether we ought to be allowed to kill our imagionary friends after we rape, beat, and torture them. Shame on you.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Ya know I think that crack at the ACLU was un-called for bud. We're not debating politics here, we're debating whether we ought to be allowed to kill our imagionary friends after we rape, beat, and torture them. Shame on you.

Well there I go again.I am sorry Mr Webmaster that I expressed my opinion on one of the boards .I honestly thought it was an open dissussion board.I was wrong and this will be my last post .I also assum Mr Webmaster that I will no longer be allowed to post my stories on this site.Ahain I am sorry for geting on a Private Dissussion Board.

[MasterRJ]

What the hell...chill out man. I made a joke...no different then your little republican wise crack...and if you wanted to post a political opinion wouldn't it make more sense to post it on a political board?

[ProjectEuropa]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

Being totally against all censorship, I can't support it now. I can't say I can speak from any experience since I don't read snuff stories but I can't imagine there being any intellectual, artistic or entertainment value in them, though I suppose some people must think there is. If someone can enlighten and propose a snuff story worth reading for anything other than for the actual killing of a character I will read it.

I have written a story with murder involved but I'm assuming with snuff stories the aim is for one character to get some sort of sexual gratification from the actual act of killing with no moral weight attached. So I'm voting in ignorance but on the principle of free speech, no matter how distasteful the subject might be which I am supporting.

[MasterRJ]

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas

It leaves you with a certain empty feeling after you read it...and it brings you to remember that not every story's got a happy ending. Yeah...I read snuff.

[ProjectEuropa]

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas

It leaves you with a certain empty feeling after you read it...and it brings you to remember that not every story's got a happy ending. Yeah...I read snuff.

I'll read it. I assume it's in the library.

[MasterRJ]

Yes it is. I forget what the Author's name is though. Grr...so if you reply to this be sure to give him/her credit.

[ProjectEuropa]

Yes it is. I forget what the Author's name is though. Grr...so if you reply to this be sure to give him/her credit.

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas by Pagan

This isn't just a snuff story it a paedophile story too! I found it a little unnerving to read.

I still think banning stories like this won't make its content go away but as a father of a 13 year old girl I do find it objectionable.

[MasterRJ]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it repressented. Let me also impart a question to you. A man fantasizes about raping a child. Let's face it, there are people like that. We read about them every day in the newspaper. But it's almost like the old saying for racism goes. There are three kinds of racists. The racist that ignores a black man and prettends he doesn't exist, the racist that spits on the black man and throws him to the ground, and the racist who helps him up and dusts off his shoulders saying 'can you beleive that asshole?' Certainly pedophellia and rape are too horrible attrocious crimes. Yet I find my self fantasizing about both. But I don't fantasize about harming any child I've ever met before. I use the stories on BDSM library as an outlet for that. So back to my scenario. A man uses these stories as an outlet for such fantasies...and they are banned. Then what? Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, pedophellia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

[ProjectEuropa]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it repressented. .

I'll certainly agree with you in so far it's left for the reader to interpret the story. The author appears to have just put it out there and not made a value judgement.

Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, pedophellia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

I wouldn't censor it. I don't think censorship solves any problems and merely conseals a problem. It's certainly a point of debate as to whether fantasies satisfy a inner need and negates the need to make real those fantasies. However psychopaths don't empathise so no amount of trying to satisfy their fantasies will solve the problem. But point taken and as I have said, one worth a debate.

[Winnie]

I agree that for this site, and perhaps a lot of others, it is wrong to have any censorship. The one thing I would like is that certain codes to be more strongly advertised. Perhaps "Snuff" could be in blue, "Incest" in red and so on. Then it would be easier for the reader to choose. I do not like a story with that content and so not download it, or, of course, the opposite, Oh goody that has that scene in it, I must read that.
I also think that there is a difference between death, murder and snuff. Some of the most poingant stories have been about death. Virago Blue's story on ASSTR had me just about in tears for months. Nearly spoiled my Christmas, and I read it in November. But you could not code it "snuff". I cannot say I really like snuff, so I just don't download them.
(Sorry I cannot remember the title of the story, but it, or the synopsis, was something like " some times the bad guys win")
Winnie

[Alex Bragi]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it represented. ... A man uses these stories as an outlet for such fantasies...and they are banned. Then what? Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, paedophilia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

You can veil it with what ever term you like - but it still won't change the fact - if it involves kids (innocents) in any kind of sexual act for the enjoyment of adults (readers or viewers), then it's kiddy porn. Whether, or not, you're a paedophile because you enjoy reading about it, or viewing images of it, is debateable.

I read about the downfall of internet porn king, Tom Reedy. His defence was – the photographs posted, which shocked and distressed hardened Dallas police - were computer generated, no children were physically involved or harmed. Is a picture more offensive than a story? Stories and computer-generated pics are both creations of someone's imagination.

I know, some people will argue - "What's difference between kiddy porn and watching, or reading, about fictional violence and murder?” Well, there are differences. When we read, or view, something sexual it stimulates one of our most primal urges - to have sexual intercourse. The 'excitement' we derive from watching fictional violence is totally different. The vast majority of us, thankfully, will simple get a morbid thrill of schadenfreude from the victim, but we certainly won't fully relate, or associate, with the perpetrator.

...I also think that there is a difference between death, murder and snuff...

Absolutely, yes. Death is very broad. Murder is the taking of a life. And, snuff is even more specific, again. It’s killing for the purpose of titillation. And so, and that’s what makes it such a controversial genre. It's because it's a mixing of a purely natural instinct with one that is not. The real and the unreal if you like.

Personally, I don't like snuff or kiddy porn; so, the solution I find is to not read it.

[Mobius]

While I have not read all the new post on the subject.
I thought that this was all settled back in 2002 with the determination of:

List of codes
A warning of strong content
and if you dont like such storys dont read them.

To me It is settled

but what ever

For my continued 2 cents 4 cent with inflation.

While I like to read storys like high heal hell and other things like that.

I am not very aroused by them

Nuf sead.

[Alex Bragi]

While I have not read all the new post on the subject.
I thought that this was all settled back in 2002 with the determination of...

You're not suggesting the topic should be censored or quashed are you?

[Mobius]

You're not suggesting the topic should be censored or quashed are you?

No of course not. I was only sugesting that it mearly expire of old age that is all.

[csr]

No of course not. I was only sugesting that it mearly expire of old age that is all.

Even if the "issue" was settled in 2002, the topic of this thread is one that can and does incite interesting discussions and debates. If it's feeling tired to you, it's your choice to not read it. Also, many of the most prolific posters right now joined in 2004--so should they not voice an opinion on a topic of discussion that predates their visits to the board? This topic is controversial to say the very least, which to me makes it still interesting to read. If we wanted to have some REAL fun, we could merge the thread with the bonsaikitten.com thread and watch the sparks fly, lol.

[Ruby]

If we wanted to have some REAL fun, we could merge the thread with the bonsaikitten.com thread and watch the sparks fly, lol.

No, please, not that! Anything but that! Anything? Well...

Regarding this thread: I often drop by to read what others are saying. There are some great discussions in here about the differences between snuff, murder, etc.

Enough that we might want to consider requesting for new story codes:
Murder
Character Death
??? - I'm sure the rest of you could come up with others

Not so much to give away the plot of the story, but to warn readers what they might find.

Thanks for the insights everyone.

[MasterRJ]

Boy did my comments get eaten alive O.O

Oh well. I stand for what I beleive in. It's unethical to censor a person's line of thinking. Therefore fantasies shouldn't be censored. Therefore erotic literature, which is typically nothing more than the Auther's sexual fantasies, shouldn't be censored either.

Am I the only one who's sad that Arthur Miller died? The Crucible was such an awesome play...

[boccaccio2000g]

Boy did my comments get eaten alive O.O

Am I the only one who's sad that Arthur Miller died? The Crucible was such an awesome play...

Miller ranks with O'Neill at the forefront of American playwrights, and with such masters as Ibsen and Galsworthy in terms of writing plays imbued with a social conscience. Nearly everyone is familiar with his "Death of a Salesman" which is not directly political. Not so well known are his "All My Sons" the story of a WW II profiteer, who learns that his corner-cutting ... -- well, I won't spoil the play for those who haven't read it. "The Crucible" is a parable indicting those who sought to inhibit freedom of thought and association during the anti-Communist hysteria of the late 40's and 50's. "A View from the Bridge" is also terrific. Less well-known, but very powerful, is his "Incident at Vichy" a play about personal courage in the face of Nazi tyranny.

Miller's later plays -- "After the Fall" and "The Price" -- were disappointing to my taste. Perhaps his brief marriage to Ms Monroe had sapped his, um, creative energies.

Boccaccio

[Mad Lews]

No, please, not that! Anything but that! Anything? Well...

Enough that we might want to consider requesting for new story codes:
Murder
Character Death
??? - I'm sure the rest of you could come up with others

Not so much to give away the plot of the story, but to warn readers what they might find.

Thanks for the insights everyone.

Ok But when do we call murder/suicide snuff I wrote a story of "Os" demise where she was consensually murdered. While it may have been for the readers tittilation her own personal motives were .... well more personal. I labeled it as snuff but was it really? Sometimes our imaginary frieinds just get to complicated or our labels are just to restricting

[ProjectEuropa]

I labeled it as snuff but was it really? Sometimes our imaginary frieinds just get to complicated or our labels are just to restricting

The more complex our characters the more real they are and the less they are willing to be labelled. That is no bad thing. Real people defy labels but we put labels upon them. It is guidence, nothing more. If you describe a character that has defied its label I would congratulate you, you are getting closer to a real character.

[MasterRJ]

Miller ranks with O'Neill at the forefront of American playwrights, and with such masters as Ibsen and Galsworthy in terms of writing plays imbued with a social conscience. Nearly everyone is familiar with his "Death of a Salesman" which is not directly political. Not so well known are his "All My Sons" the story of a WW II profiteer, who learns that his corner-cutting ... -- well, I won't spoil the play for those who haven't read it. "The Crucible" is a parable indicting those who sought to inhibit freedom of thought and association during the anti-Communist hysteria of the late 40's and 50's. "A View from the Bridge" is also terrific. Less well-known, but very powerful, is his "Incident at Vichy" a play about personal courage in the face of Nazi tyranny.

Miller's later plays -- "After the Fall" and "The Price" -- were disappointing to my taste. Perhaps his brief marriage to Ms Monroe had sapped his, um, creative energies.

Yeah...creative energies...that's it...

[isshy]

Hi,

Being new to the forums but not the library (i've been reading the stories on and off for a while now) i was kinda suprised by the thread...

I personally exercise my options on the stories content and choose to avoid any stories that contain snuff. it's just not my thing. I also avoid incest stories and as a mother of a 14 year old girl I avoid teen stories too. Now this may make you wonder why I would even choose to read any story here at all, however I find there are stories that cater to my personal tastes and I enjoy reading them very much. The point is I use the codes and read what appeals to me. I wouldn't for one second think of asking for all stories that aren't Ff++ etc to be removed from the library.

The codes are there, use them, avoid that which you don't like and enjoy the ones you want. Others I'm sure will do the same.

Isshy

[Sweep]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

Yep - I dislike Snuff stories and feel that they give we BDSM's a bad name (guilt by association). Still I dislike censorship even more and feel that it would be hippocritical for us to impose censorship.

As long as the story is identified as what it is (and the codes used by this site are excellent) then we can't complain about it.

Its only fantasy when it is all said and done - people get killed in Harry Potter.

Cheers

[H Dean]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

It is key to note that the webmaster of this site has included particular codings to indicate what contents are contained within a story. Clearly, the webmaster has already decided what is acceptable contents within the site and what is not.

Further, as was obvious to me and should be obvious to any who view this site, there are certain notions and ideas that will be expressed on this site that may be tasteless or horrifying to others. You have the option to pass over the site and/or the stories.

I would imagine that there are many Christian and Muslim fundamentalists who would have the lot of us thrown into chains for reading even the least extreme story contained on this site. Would you throw us in chains for writing or reading a tale of snuff?

Something else that is key to note; There are many other free sites with stories and pictures - you could migrate over to those. Perhaps you should start your own site, as well. Then you could monitor the goings on and what the acceptable topics are.

But, since you don't want snuff, I thought that we should take a poll. Any fetish that receives 5 votes against it should be removed and no author should be allowed to write about it. That should clear up any possibilities of any offensive topics.

[H Dean]

I am an author and I post on this site and several others .I write snuff and also write other stories and I feel I have the right to do this .One reason is THE BILL OF RIGHTS and the other is I served in combat and fought for that BILL OF RIGHTS.As long as what I write does no harm to another living person I feel it is my right to write what I want and your right to read what you want.So I agree with you.The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.

Bobby, the Bill of Rights does not apply to this board or any parts of this site so it's really not applicable. The webmaster has complete authority as it is a private site.

By the way - the ACLU has been successful in wounding freedom of speech and expression of religion in America. If you don't believe me, come to the state of California.

[boccaccio2000g]

The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.

What utter nonsense!

If it were not for the American Civil Liberties Union, the open exchange of ideas regarding sexual matters would not even be legal in this country. Have you never heard of "Ulysses"? "Lady Chatterley's Lover"? These were books by novelists of international reputation (James Joyce, DH Lawrence); and each was banned in this country for quite some time, as were many others, because they included relatively tame references to human sexuality.

Here is the mission statement of the ACLU:

"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth) and the Nineteenth Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
• Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
• Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
• Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
• Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled."
================

Please tell me what part of that manifesto you disagree with.

The ACLU stood up for blacks when they were being lynched in the south. They stood up for Jews when there were quotas on Jewish admissions to certain colleges and universities. They stood up for Japanese-Americans when they were being thrown in concentration camps during World War II. They stood up for freedom of thought and association during they hysterical frenzy of post-WW II McCarthyism.

And they will stand up for you if the right-wing zealots in this country ever decide to go after pornographers and their readers and viewers.

Boccaccio

[Alex Bragi]

The ACLU stood up for blacks when they were being lynched in the south. They stood up for Jews when there were quotas on Jewish admissions to certain colleges and universities. They stood up for Japanese-Americans when they were being thrown in concentration camps during World War II. They stood up for freedom of thought and association during they hysterical frenzy of post-WW II McCarthyism.

And they will stand up for you if the right-wing zealots in this country ever decide to go after pornographers and their readers and viewers.

You certainly raise some very good points there, however…

I fully support any adult being allowed to participate in any consensual sexual play, and the right to view or read pretty much anything of the same. Only, I can’t help but feel that you’re trivialising the rights of women, jews, blacks and the minority groups mentioned in this manifesto by comparing them to a bunch of blue movies, dirty pictures and sex stories. I simply fail to see the equation between someone not getting all the porn they think they’re entitled to and being discriminated against because of your race, sex, or religion. It’s your right to express your view for sure, but please try to keep it in perspective.

And, of course I will always be on the front line of anyone who dares to harm or corrupt “society’s most vulnerable members”—our kids. And that’s why, to that degree, I do support a certain amount of censorship.