Congratulations eraser on a clear statement of your point of view, any submissive of yours is going to know exactly where they kneel, with no manipulation.
The only thing I wish to add to what I have said in earlier posts, and this relates to erasers comments on sales techniques, is that I would define the main difference between influence and manipulation is in the motivation of the effector. IN influencing another we are seeking for a win/win outcome, whereas in manipulation the effector is out to win, regardless of the outcome for the affected. the techniques employed are the same, albeit used in slightly different ways and certainly with different intended outcomes.

THe analogy of sales is a good one, because really good sales reps, think long term, and value and honour their customers ( like the good dom knows his sub well, and doesn't abuse their trust), bad salesmen are after a quick buck and don't care a toss about the customers needs, and hence use the same techniques differently for quick manipulative outcomes, especailly targetting vulnerable targets, as presumably will abusive doms, vanillla or bdsm. It is these types that can take subvert the freely given submission of power by a sub. I guess!
i've greatly enjoyed the lively exchanges in this thread. i find myself aligned most closely with the comments eraser has posted. while i do believe that the search for universal truths is a useful tool in one's path to self-discovery, it is merely that, a tool. everyone's situation is unique and may not necessarily fit into broader definitions agreed upon by the majority. one person's abuse may be another person's affection. our perceptions define our realities. each one of us can process the same stimuli in different ways. as long as the two parties involved are happy, content and fulfilled within the context of a relationship that does not harm others (who do not wish to be harmed!) i see no reason to judge their actions or the dynamics between them.

like any other relationship, power-exchange relationships evolve with time. i would think that in most cases they continue to redefine their limits as they grow. in my opinion the logical endpoint in the development of a free-spirited tpe relationship that exists in a vacuum (no interaction with society) is a situation in which the submissive has learned enough about her owner and trusts him enough to grant him all power over her. of course, most of us will never reach that state of affairs due to the nature of our everyday lives. some of us continue to seek it.

respectfully,
n.