Quote Originally Posted by fwss
I'm a little puzzled by your last comment, Ruby. Many - surely most - dominants are sadists, right? They get off on inflicting pain and/or other suffering. Masochists get off on taking it. Slaves get off on fulfilling their owner's needs.

I therefore cannot see any way in which a dominant inflicting pain 'for the hell of it' should be described as 'dangerous', as long as they are doing it to a consenting partner.
Hi fwss,

Whether or not most dominats are sadists is probably a topic for another thread. If you look beyond the highly publicized S&M aspects of a D/S relationship, you will find there is an art to sensual domming and serving.

I think Jean and Friede answered your question.

Even consenting partners have needs, desires, wants and limits. Just because a sub is a masochist, doesn't mean they want pain all the time or that they don't want it within a particular set of guidelines.

I have friends who have survived some brutal relationships, where the dom would beat them, just because he could. Not for their mutual pleasure, but for the dom's pleasure. When safe words are not recognized, boundaries are not respected, when the rules are constantly changing and the sub is kept off balance or living in fear, then we move into the realm of selfishness and abuse.

If its consensual pain/pleasure, that's a different animal altogether.

What is the place of pain in a BDSM relationship?

a. it doesn't belong at all
b. it belongs under certain guidelines
c. it belongs if both people are having their needs met and are satisfied with the results/outcome
d. all of the above.

I'll go with d and add, it always depends on the individual relationship. BDSM is a huge umbrella, there is no right or wrong fetish, yet there is safe, sane and consensual play. Or if you're into risk aware consensual kink and that works for your relationship, that's okay, too. However, consensual is the key word.

Hope this helps explain my earlier comment,

Ruby