Gun History

[TomOfSweden]

aaaah I wondered where this thread went.

I think that the main reason why we get such a heated discussion here is because Tom and I live in Sweden where we havent had a war for the past 200+ years and you in the US have had lots of fighting in the past few hundred years.
Our societys look different and we dont have the same amount of violent crimes nor the same amount of people carrying guns. There might not be a link between the two or there might.
Swedes cant get a permit to carry a concealed weapon at all and we dont feel as "scared" of what our government does as it seems like you do from your posts. We never had the need for every person to carry a gun to defend themselves even.

Simply put our past and present look very different and that is why our opinions differ.
It is most definitely an interresting discussion though.

my 5 eurodollars

I don't think that's the reason at all. First off I think it's the fact that USA has a lot more poverty than western Europe that's the big difference. Western Europe has a lot more welfare and state aid to people in shity situations. This means that we don't get as many desperate down and outs over here. I think that the root of virtually all crime is poverty and/or lack of hope in life. Increased crime rates is just a natural development of USA's economic policies. I don't think there's an obvious right or wrong here. We make choices and pay the price. USA is as a whole a lot richer than Europe, so I'm sure it's policies benefit USA in the long run financially. But it creates a lot harsher life for them now. No matter if you're rich or poor.

The gun issue is completely separate. I think that the combination of poverty induced elevated crime rates makes it so very dangerous to legalize guns in the USA. Finland and Austria being prime examples of how legalising guns is in itself not a bad thing. Just looking at the guns themselves I don't think is helpful to understanding gun crime, no matter your stance.

A couple of years ago I was in a business meeting with an older Hells Angels guy. Hell's Angels is Sweden's most infamous Mafia organisation. This meeting was nothing to do with crime at all. They've got plenty of legit business ventures and this might have been one of them.

Anyhoo... To cut a long story short. We had a long discussion and ended up having a heart to heart. When I told him that I didn't understand the appeal of joining an organisation like the Hells Angels he said something along the lines of, the Mafia is for people without strong father figures. It's for people with no structure or purpose in their life who need a firm hand and a clear social function in life.

I thought it was pretty profound. Beside never ever have expected to hear such a candid or well formulated answer from that low-browed massive mound of meat. Never forget that the people who join this shit are all very young. My interpretation was that, they might tell other or even themselves that they're in it for the bitches, money and drugs...but as always it's never that simple. And as we all know. Once they're in they can't leave so they off-course adjust their morals to fit.

For me personally. The state finally took custody over me and gave me money and a place to stay so I didn't need to steal stuff any longer. I was still up to no good and got into a lot of trouble. But the increased security in my life meant that I went on to other types of crime. A little bit more safer and friendly things. I ran a string of illegal all-nighter clubs. Selling alcohol without a permit is very illegal in Sweden. And then as I said, I went legit all together. I have a feeling that my early life story is pretty common for any criminal. But I never got convicted of anything. Which I think was the key to how I could get out of it.

There's no special criminal mind and I doubt there's any evil gene. I'm sure there's a violent gene. But that doesn't in anyway have to lead to crime, or even violence. It wasn't until I was 23 that I realised that I'd been in a constant state of semi-panic attack all my life. The first time I ever felt calm and safe was when I was then, at 23. It's hard to explain. But if you've never experienced an emotion. It's very hard to long for it or to figure out what you might need in life to feel it. It's very hard to think straight when your mind is in a state of panic. I was never all that into drugs, but if I'd been...wow....that would have been fucked. awww... it's hard to explain. But this issue is so far beyond good and evil or right and wrong. It's about survival. Both mentally and literally.

My old gang friend at Rational got a girl friend who helped him get off heroin and straighten up his life. I don't actually know his back story but he was very young when he got into crime life to. According to him, he stopped doing crime the second he could see another viable option for him in his life. Nobody knows his background where he works now. Nobody would believe him if he told them.

It's not only my experience but it's also science. When you punish criminals harshly and put them away, all you're doing is breeding criminals. The worst thing that can happen is that they identify with it. Which tends to happen in jail. Seeing it as a way of life rather than a tool to survive. All the old friends I have which went to jail are all such fuck ups. They all have at best dead end jobs, still do drugs and fuck teenage chicks even though they're waaaay too old for it. And the ones with kids are even worse. They're hardly working hard to make the world a better place. All thanks to the forces of justice. It's not that they're all that bad people. But who the fuck hires an ex-convict for anything interesting?

As I said. The only way to combat crime is to take away the underlying reason. There's no obvious simple solution. Especially not carrying guns like some vigilante macho nerd protecting the good from the evil. It might feel like you're doing something good but until the criminals needs can be met some other way he'll just keep going. As a crime victim your only two options that make any difference is 1) shoot to kill. Problem solved for ever. 2) just forget about it and call your insurance company. Or your goal is simple revenge. Can't really argue that one. But it will only make matters worse. The state pays for jail time which comes from your pocket. Unless you're a criminal in case it won't. It's a lose - lose.

Guns as a deterrent against crime doesn't work. There's plenty of research to back that one up. I doubt if it's a deterrent against ones government turning into a dictatorship either. There's a massive difference between a soldier and a private citizen other than just guns.

I'm very ranty now. And I apologise for that. But this is something I both feel strongly about and know a lot about. Since this was a very long time ago I've gotten a lot of perspective.