Is God Perfect?

[ThisYouWillDo]

I have tried, but I cannot see why perfection must be linked to a prime mover, even in the context of our earlier posts (only after Descartes was God, the prime mover, held to be perfect and the chances are that Milton did not regard Him as such at all).

It is agreed that perfection only came into being after the Creation, but not that it might be something else had the universe been made differently. I still think that, whether in a divinely created, three-dimensional universe, or an eleven dimensional one brought into being by some colossal explosion out of nothing, and tied together with bits of string, up is still up, and not left, or right, or having the characteristics of Swedishness. Likewise, first will always be followed by last and, to my way of thinking, perfect will always be flawless. If these concepts are the same in any universe, they are not created by God, they just ARE.

[TomOfSweden]

I have tried, but I cannot see why perfection must be linked to a prime mover, even in the context of our earlier posts (only after Descartes was God, the prime mover, held to be perfect and the chances are that Milton did not regard Him as such at all).

It is agreed that perfection only came into being after the Creation, but not that it might be something else had the universe been made differently. I still think that, whether in a divinely created, three-dimensional universe, or an eleven dimensional one brought into being by some colossal explosion out of nothing, and tied together with bits of string, up is still up, and not left, or right, or having the characteristics of Swedishness. Likewise, first will always be followed by last and, to my way of thinking, perfect will always be flawless. If these concepts are the same in any universe, they are not created by God, they just ARE.

Abstract semantic containers are always different depending on what you put in it. For every Christian there's a different "god" concept. For every person there's a different "perfection" concept. It's just play with words. These concepts only have value when you talk about concrete manifestations of them. You can discuss that in relative terms, but not it's "perfection".

ie The entity that controlled the pen of all the authors and editors of the Bible, that voice in my head when I pray, that entity that guided my car away from the collision and that force that made sure my baby was beautiful..etc. What can I deduce about the entity from these manifestations? I can't even deduce they're the same entity, so whether or not it's perfect or not doesn't really enter in to it.

Whether or not god is perfect or not is just double abstraction. It's like saying the words, "Complete and unhinged greatness" and pretending you've made a statement or even a complete sentence.

edit: just to be perfectly clear here, I'm not talking about whether or not "God" exists or not. I'm simply talking about what the concept of "God" includes. Which is the step before exploring any possible existence.