Organized Religion, Good or Bad?

[Tojo]

My belief is that religion, like so many organisations is only as good as it's followers or members. The ideals of Christianity (to take one example) if followed by all of us would improve the world no end.

I also believe many forms of government could be effective & desirable if not for the dishonesty & lack of moral fibre of some members.

To make the world a better place to live in, we need to look at ourselves. There's some old saying I seem to remember from somewhere- 'Do unto others.....

If we all lived by that, 'what a wonderful world this could be'.

Tojo

[Sklaventreiber]

I'm sorry, but I'm to cynical to believe that if we were to all follow the precepts of any religion, we would be no better off. I do not dispute the fact that modern law has its basis in religious law but the "radical" side of religion despite what its name is, catholic, islam, etc...always will "create" problems for society.

These are my opinions I don't wish to shove them down anybody's throat but hey, right now it's very dangerous to be a "christian" in Afghanistan which proves my point.

[submissivewife]

I'm sorry, but I'm to cynical to believe that if we were to all follow the precepts of any religion, we would be no better off. I do not dispute the fact that modern law has its basis in religious law but the "radical" side of religion despite what its name is, catholic, islam, etc...always will "create" problems for society.

These are my opinions I don't wish to shove them down anybody's throat but hey, right now it's very dangerous to be a "christian" in Afghanistan which proves my point.

That's the point of these threads, peoples view points. Some are likely to disagree it's getting along while disagreeing that is important. Although I like this topic, I am going to keep my opinions to myself. I just wanted to say "play nice".

[subdude05]

If were talking movies i thing Kevin Smiths Dogma has a good point in fact the whole film and association is proof that "organised" religion is'nt always as good as it sounds, the film was protested against by religious groups before it was even shown, kevin Smith even showed up to the protest and was interviewed by a local mews team condeming his own film, the point being that people who are telling people how to live are not allways well informed. The film its self does not condem religion in fact it is to most intents and purposes a religious film, but with the take, "it is better to have ideas" (Chris Rock), it also points out key factors that its highly probable (if not truth) that parts of the bible are missing, for example Jesus jumps from one age to another (i forget something like 12 - 30, about 18 years i think) because of the his family, brothers and sisters, which is more than likely, we are led to believe Mary and Joseph only had one child, and poor Joseph did not have a part in it, in fact it is more than likely that Joseph had more than one wife even,(but i dont know about that one). There was a news artical i read somewhere that they found a part of the bible that was suposed to be Jesus own account of what happened, like the deciples stories, one part of it said some thing along the likes of, don't worship me in houses of wood or stone, worship me in your heart. basicly Jesus condemed the church, you can see why they hid that one in the vaults of the vatagan. What else is down there?

My theory is that people can believe what thay like if it helps them get through the day, but preach it to me you've gone too far. Plus they should sort their own corruption before telling other people how to live their lives and death.

And besides, what if your wrong, George W Bush is buggered if he gets to the afterlife to be greeted by the words "welcome, my names Alah, hope you enjoy your stay"

[Lina]

I love the movie "Dogma" and i think the line "peopel will do almost anything to defend a belife. It is better to have ideas." now...I know this may sound contradictory to my previouse post but...I say I belive certain things and that is true but I dont presume to think that I have the only correct/valid idea out there. my belifes are just a theory or Idea that helps me contextualize my reality. It just so happens that my thories coincide very well with the primary tenants of the Roman Catholic church.

[Aesop]

I say I belive certain things and that is true but I dont presume to think that I have the only correct/valid idea out there. my belifes are just a theory or Idea that helps me contextualize my reality. It just so happens that my thories coincide very well with the primary tenants of the Roman Catholic church.

There you go. As long as you ain't shoving it down somebody else's throat you should enjoy your faith.

[Aesop]

My theory is that people can believe what thay like if it helps them get through the day, but preach it to me you've gone too far.

Really? What do you mean by preach exactly? Because if you mean the believe as I do or you're damned I'm with you, but if you just mean people who want to share what they belive I'm not. I have no problem with anyone who wants to share with me. I'm probably not going to go along, but it's nice they thought enough of me to want me to share the wealth.

[subdude05]

Really? What do you mean by preach exactly? Because if you mean the believe as I do or you're damned I'm with you, but if you just mean people who want to share what they belive I'm not. I have no problem with anyone who wants to share with me. I'm probably not going to go along, but it's nice they thought enough of me to want me to share the wealth.

I had some, up himself street corner preacher start shouting something about satanists at me, i had not provoced him, i lagught a bit which could hav pissed him off, but i could have been laughing at anyone, the only reason i can see to cause his outburst of predjudice is that i have long hair and i was werering black as i useually do. Another insident was the other day in a pub, me and a couple of friends were chatting adn one of thoes over friendly people came over and sat with us (now dont get me wron i dont mine friendly people who talk to you) and started on about jusus and we had a wonderfull (and colourfull) debate, to which he got all, shove it down our thoughts.

I have also been unfortunate enough (as has Lavender), a street corner preaching "rap" group, with loud amplifiers you could hear all up the road and further, and awfull cover version of a Lauran Hill song but they had chanded the lyrics to preach, this was the most awfull act of ott preaching, since the guy with the mega phone and bike. I think preaching gets out of hand when the inrtoduce something to aid them, like standing on a box so they can look down on you as if they are better than you, a megaphone so people who dont want to listen have to and other peoples songs (to which you can garantee thery havent got permission from the record company or artist) loudly though big amps so you cant even speak to the person next to you.

That sort of thing

[Sklaventreiber]

My experience with these street corner preachers has been, that they are primarily con-artists who are taking advantage of the people who pass by them. Singling you out was a tactic much the same as a illicit street vendor would use to get you, or somebody near by to pay attention to them so that they can take your money.

[Sklaventreiber]

Really? What do you mean by preach exactly? Because if you mean the believe as I do or you're damned I'm with you, but if you just mean people who want to share what they belive I'm not. I have no problem with anyone who wants to share with me. I'm probably not going to go along, but it's nice they thought enough of me to want me to share the wealth.

For me it's the people who get into your face and literally tell you that if you don't believe as they do you are going to hell...(personally I am anyway)...They are as much as saying the same thing as the extremists in Afghanistan who are going to kill a person whom converted to christianity. I personally think that if the US wasn't a country that didn't have freedom of religion you certainly could see where some of these people, particulary the fundamentalists, could condone doing the same kind of thing.

You don't have to go to far back in history especially in Europe to see religious persecution practiced all the time.

But, my personal experience has taught me that organized religion, regardless of the particular faith, sect, etc. is not the way I want to go.

[Aesop]

I'm sorry, but I'm to cynical to believe that if we were to all follow the precepts of any religion, we would be no better off. I do not dispute the fact that modern law has its basis in religious law but the "radical" side of religion despite what its name is, catholic, islam, etc...always will "create" problems for society.

These are my opinions I don't wish to shove them down anybody's throat but hey, right now it's very dangerous to be a "christian" in Afghanistan which proves my point.

And it's very dangerous to have a Middle-Eastern accent in the United States and that has nothing to do with religion. Prejudice will always have a place with those who are afraid; religious or not.

Besides Tojo didn't say to follow the precepts; he said the ideals. Very different things. If everyone could manage to follow the ideals laid down by various faiths the world couldn't help but get better.

[Sklaventreiber]

And it's very dangerous to have a Middle-Eastern accent in the United States and that has nothing to do with religion. Prejudice will always have a place with those who are afraid; religious or not.

Besides Tojo didn't say to follow the precepts; he said the ideals. Very different things. If everyone could manage to follow the ideals laid down by various faiths the world couldn't help but get better.

Maybe, maybe...but I doubt it.

Because it's too big of an IF...

[poboy789]

What a deep topic. Because of my beliefs, I'm certainly bias. However, I believe that a belief in God or some other higher force is a good thing. It gives people something to believe in and something to live for. From a personal standpoint, things I have done and experienced in my life have lead me to believe that there is a God. Within the framework of a belief in God, organized religion serves a purpose. Now, organized religion has never done a lot for me personally. Certainly, there have been instances where people, in the name of religion, have done terrible things. However, in a lot of these cases, if you look hard, you will find that religion is not the basis for the action, but some politician's or other leader's personal agenda is the basis for the action. The politiian or leader manipulates and uses religion as a basis so people will follow the agenda. Regardess, focusing on the negative aspects of religion igones the good things that organized religions do. I know of no other organizations that provide more charitable contributions, both on a local, national and global level to our society. That's just how I see it, but everyone's entitled to an opinion.

[Aesop]

My belief is that religion, like so many organisations is only as good as it's followers or members. The ideals of Christianity (to take one example) if followed by all of us would improve the world no end.

I also believe many forms of government could be effective & desirable if not for the dishonesty & lack of moral fibre of some members.

To make the world a better place to live in, we need to look at ourselves. There's some old saying I seem to remember from somewhere- 'Do unto others.....

If we all lived by that, 'what a wonderful world this could be'.

Tojo

Amen.