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Midnite Do you believe in miracles? 12-21-2007, 02:32 PM
blythe spirit I do believe in miracles and... 12-21-2007, 04:11 PM
Thorne Because I tend towards the... 12-21-2007, 08:34 PM
ThisYouWillDo I believe that if God... 12-22-2007, 05:37 PM
blythe spirit Perhaps I'm looking at it on... 12-22-2007, 09:47 PM
ThisYouWillDo We say a new-born baby is a... 12-23-2007, 04:00 AM
Thorne And maybe not just one.... 12-23-2007, 08:06 AM
blythe spirit It would be presumptuous of... 12-23-2007, 10:54 AM
Thorne It is equally presumptuous to... 12-23-2007, 11:52 AM
blythe spirit Golly, gee - I 'pose next... 12-23-2007, 12:43 PM
Thorne And such a cute, delicate... 12-23-2007, 07:01 PM
blythe spirit Well, our scientist watch... 12-23-2007, 09:14 PM
ThisYouWillDo ... Bubbles for sale... 12-24-2007, 04:29 AM
Thorne A rainbow is beautiful... 12-24-2007, 10:43 AM
ThisYouWillDo I shall wait for science to... 01-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Thorne Refraction happens because... 01-07-2008, 08:16 PM
Ozme52 Science does tell us why... 01-09-2008, 11:03 AM
Moonraker I am an ignoramus in terms of... 12-31-2007, 05:04 AM
Flaming_Redhead Simply put, I believe that... 01-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Euryleia I agree with Thorne that the... 01-07-2008, 08:32 PM
wmrs2 Well said Euryeia. To a cave... 02-16-2008, 10:38 PM
TomOfSweden Actually, evil in the world... 02-17-2008, 02:02 AM
Thorne This is one of the major... 02-17-2008, 09:36 AM
wmrs2 Religion is More Personal... 02-17-2008, 09:57 AM
TomOfSweden What does this mean? Personal... 02-17-2008, 12:30 PM
wmrs2 [QUOTE=TomOfSweden;560628]What... 02-17-2008, 02:44 PM
Thorne So, if I believe that God... 02-17-2008, 07:08 PM
TomOfSweden And you base this... 02-18-2008, 01:25 AM
Ozme52 History says their reaction... 02-18-2008, 12:16 PM
TomOfSweden Sorry to be an arse here. But... 02-19-2008, 05:20 AM
Ozme52 Well, not really because,... 02-19-2008, 12:39 PM
TomOfSweden I think you're totally wrong.... 02-19-2008, 11:46 PM
Ozme52 Perhaps. I will admit I had... 02-20-2008, 03:50 PM
TomOfSweden And this is of course why all... 02-21-2008, 01:53 AM
wmrs2 The philosopher knows he can... 02-19-2008, 11:10 PM
TomOfSweden That's the definition of... 02-20-2008, 01:37 AM
ThisYouWillDo . 01-08-2008, 05:20 PM
Thorne Nope, sorry, I just don't... 01-08-2008, 09:02 PM
ThisYouWillDo Even you have redeeming... 01-09-2008, 01:32 AM
Ozme52 Actually science can explain... 01-09-2008, 11:36 AM
ThisYouWillDo Actually science can explain... 01-09-2008, 12:11 PM
Ozme52 Neither, I'm saying that... 01-09-2008, 01:38 PM
Thorne I think you will find that... 01-09-2008, 01:56 PM
Thorne Just don't tell anyone! It'll... 01-09-2008, 01:33 PM
TomOfSweden Are people having two... 01-09-2008, 01:59 AM
Ozme52 Well therein lies the issue. ... 01-09-2008, 11:49 AM
TomOfSweden I think it's even simpler.... 01-10-2008, 12:52 AM
Logic1 No, I dont believe that. ... 01-09-2008, 04:28 AM
ThisYouWillDo For all your very interesting... 01-09-2008, 07:07 PM
Thorne Once again we seem to batting... 01-09-2008, 08:29 PM
ThisYouWillDo Now, that I can agree with. ... 01-11-2008, 05:33 AM
Captain I absolutely believe in... 01-13-2008, 05:08 PM
Thorne If we assume that you are... 01-13-2008, 07:38 PM
Ozme52 I just read A War of Gifts by... 01-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Thorne Yeah, I've heard similar... 01-14-2008, 08:29 PM
Ozme52 Agreed. But by that very... 01-14-2008, 11:54 PM
mkemse Have never seen anything to... 01-14-2008, 10:53 PM
Thorne Okay, I'm going to take you... 01-25-2008, 08:44 PM
Thorne So, those 5 witnesses... 01-26-2008, 01:50 PM
ThisYouWillDo Well, all I can say is, it's... 01-26-2008, 12:12 PM
mkemse To be honest, I have never... 01-27-2008, 06:14 PM
ThisYouWillDo I am one of the confirmed... 01-27-2008, 06:32 PM
Thorne Even that would be... 01-27-2008, 07:55 PM
ThisYouWillDo <deleted: just an unnecessary... 01-28-2008, 05:41 AM
mkemse I do not wish to make light... 01-27-2008, 10:12 PM
ThisYouWillDo Don't know anything about the... 01-28-2008, 05:22 AM
Warbaby1943 Simply answered - yes I do. 01-28-2008, 05:56 AM
TomOfSweden The thing is that I've... 01-29-2008, 06:30 AM
ThisYouWillDo You're considerate to a... 01-29-2008, 06:46 AM
ThisYouWillDo ProDom I was about to make... 01-29-2008, 07:02 AM
ThisYouWillDo Tom Maybe it's because the... 01-29-2008, 07:08 AM
TomOfSweden Judas in Jesus Christ... 01-29-2008, 08:05 AM
TomOfSweden http://www.sciencedirect.com/s... 02-08-2008, 05:56 AM
ThisYouWillDo I wondered why He and I are... 02-08-2008, 06:22 AM
rabbit111 There are miracles around us... 02-08-2008, 07:07 AM
TomOfSweden I totally agree, but the... 02-08-2008, 07:14 AM
Thorne I'm much more comfortable... 02-08-2008, 03:10 PM
markus_valtion i do believe in miracles. i... 02-08-2008, 03:37 PM
Thorne I hear this kind of thing all... 02-09-2008, 01:40 PM
ThisYouWillDo In a godless universe... 02-08-2008, 10:56 AM
TomOfSweden Isn't that a bit narrow... 02-09-2008, 03:53 AM
Thorne No, incomprehensible means... 02-09-2008, 01:45 PM
TomOfSweden That wasn't convincing. I... 02-11-2008, 12:24 AM
ThisYouWillDo I'll stick with "chance". ... 02-09-2008, 05:31 PM
Thorne Why? As you state, there HAS... 02-09-2008, 08:21 PM
ThisYouWillDo You're mixing universes and... 02-10-2008, 05:22 PM
Thorne I don't think this is... 02-10-2008, 09:23 PM
Thorne Okay, I'm going to jump in... 02-10-2008, 07:50 AM
wmrs2 Thorne, it is a highly... 02-16-2008, 11:55 PM
Thorne I do not blame God for... 02-17-2008, 09:19 AM
ThisYouWillDo I agree with Thorne almost... 02-10-2008, 05:01 PM
Thorne Well, DAMN, Pro Dom, you had... 02-10-2008, 09:28 PM
ThisYouWillDo Thorne. I don't believe... 02-11-2008, 03:53 AM
ThisYouWillDo I've just come across Tom's... 02-11-2008, 11:18 AM
TomOfSweden Good repost. That's one of... 02-11-2008, 11:22 AM
ThisYouWillDo Ummm - the Eastern Orthodox... 02-18-2008, 06:42 PM
Ozme52 No issue there. My point is... 02-18-2008, 07:09 PM
ThisYouWillDo So true ... 02-18-2008, 07:14 PM
ThisYouWillDo Apparently, people with... 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM
Thorne Let us not forget that,... 02-19-2008, 08:33 PM
ThisYouWillDo Believers have died at the... 02-20-2008, 07:53 PM
Thorne You're absolutely right, of... 02-20-2008, 09:27 PM
Mr.FixIt I am the son of a Church of... 04-15-2008, 05:03 PM
stripedangel The biggest trick the devil... 04-15-2008, 05:06 PM
TomOfSweden I've thought about this now.... 04-16-2008, 07:14 AM
stripedangel Thought it was pretty clear,... 04-16-2008, 01:35 PM
mkemse I have never seen any proof... 04-16-2008, 09:44 AM
GearJammer having seen one, I can only... 04-16-2008, 02:52 PM
Mr.FixIt Ok. I must speak up now. I... 04-16-2008, 10:09 PM
TomOfSweden I understood the purpose of... 04-17-2008, 01:26 AM
stripedangel The question infers that... 04-17-2008, 08:45 AM
icey no i dont believe in miracles... 04-17-2008, 09:03 AM
Mr.FixIt I don't think that... 04-17-2008, 11:17 PM
Mr.FixIt she was not citing her... 04-18-2008, 12:22 AM
Mr.FixIt I think that we're pulling at... 04-17-2008, 11:19 PM
icey i re-read it and was still... 04-17-2008, 11:43 PM
Midnite Actually the question, really... 04-19-2008, 08:34 AM
stripedangel Master and i are baptised... 04-19-2008, 11:21 AM
dynamicbuttler I don't believe in god,... 04-30-2008, 08:41 AM
  1. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    God Wants Actions
    And you base this opinion/truth on what exactly? Your intuition?

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    That's part of the problem with trying to understand religious truth. Scholars have only messed up the search for truth by attempting to quantify it. Real truth is generally self evident truth that people just act on! People don't have to back it up academically.
    The point with academic studies, isn't to impress with big brain on internet forums. It is comparing ideas and learning from each other. You're rejecting this and replacing it only with intuition. I'm guessing that you're not a scholar. If that is the case, what you are doing is rejecting thousands of years of work, that you haven't read, and draw conclusions about the futility of their work. But you're not against studying are you? You read the Bible don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    For exp., a father doesn't delay teaching his child to stay out of the street until he documents the dangers in the street.Some common sense facts are self evident. Helping the sick man in a ditch is self evident act based on a truth of love. Also, if we help one person with AIDs, I think at the same time we are helping all mankind.
    So what do you need God for? If being good is self evident then religion can be rejected, right? I'd personally call it instinct or human nature. But that's just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    Activist Christians have done a lot to help mankind. Their actions have been based on self evident truth (M.L. King, Pope John Paul, teachers nurses, etc.)
    Scholars who argue over which facts about God are real or backed up or can be proven are the ones that have not done shit, as you call it.
    I'm not going to argue. But I think the did what they did, not because they believed in God, but because of helping others made them feel good about themselves, and affirmed them. Humans are a helpful species. We're social, and we like to help those we can connect and empathise with.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    I am using the term truth as an abstract. But the truth that Jesus used certainly was not empty. It was very relative. In your responses to this thread, you provide us with many good sources but I don't see the relativeness to any of them in relation to the "human situation." Most people who read these threads do not have the academic background to interpret the sources you cite. They only have to take our word for it that these sources say what we say they say.
    Wikipedia is for laypeople. It's the whole point of it. So I think you'll do fine.

    If truth is relative you need to give a context.

    You wrote the bellow text:
    "For example, in the Bible the Good Samaritan did did not need theological knowledge to help the sick man in the ditch. Theological knowledge often overlooks the personal needs of mankind. It is this personal knowledge and truth that Christ brought to the religious argument. This the truth that the Bible seeks to enlighten mankind. There is no error or fault in this truth."

    Is the Bible seeking to enlighten mankind? Is this relative? If the good Samaritan would have done it anyway, what did he need God and the Bible for? How has he been enlightened if he had done it anyway? And then you go on to saying that "it is no fault or error in it", like a statement. As if it needs pointing out if it would have been true.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    The real scholar of truth goes a step closer. He taught in parables and sayings that helped individuals see the self evident facts of live and the human situation.
    Again, what does the "real scholar of truth" need God for? If he's taught parables that are self evident, he doesn't need them does he?

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    If the common person wants to know if God is real or does miracles, he doesn't need to ask fellows like us.

    So you're basically saying that God is irrelevant? If the existence of God isn't important, I assume that you don't care either way?

    Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
    We might know too many facts that would only confuse persons with real good common sense.

    I hope this helps.
    But your facts wouldn't confuse a man with bad common sense?

    edit: BTW. There is no need to apologise for not answering fast. I prefer you taking your time and making sure what you write is what you had in your mind and what it is you want us to understand.

    Just to make my point more clear. I'd like to know how you detect the truth? If your only tool for figuring it out is your intuition, you've robbed Christians of any platform from which to judge anything. Their own morality for example. What if another Christians religious intuition goes against yours. Who has truth on their side? How do you know? I think you need to quantify the truth, for moral judgements to have any value.

    A problem with parables is that they need interpreting. Which brings us back to the issue with truth. How can you possibly know that you've interpreted something correctly? How can you ever say that you know what God wants? How can you ever say that your actions are in accordance with Gods wishes?
    Last edited by TomOfSweden; 02-18-2008 at 06:05 AM.

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