Wind-Walker. I wonder if you would like to waterboard your beautiful slave for us and tell us how far that gets you.

BDSM torture is consensual, aimed at fulfilment and carried out with respect. Love and affection are usually involved. Trust is, certainly. It is done subject to limits - if not the slave's, then those of the law.

Torture of the kind we are discussing is non-consensual, aimed at breaking a person and carried out without any respect for the victim at all. Hate and contempt are usually present. Fear is always. It is, per se, outside the limits of the law.


And that is really the nub of this debate. Torture is illegal, like it or not. It's primitive - mediaeval at best. Advocates are backwards-looking and (I dare say) defeatist: if we can't beat them, we'll sink to their level.