Waterboarding

[stripedangel]

However, reading your post again, I feel we have achieved some kind of consensus. Torture is futile. You say, "no super secret intel was gathered from the captivity and torture of any Japs." I'm sure you are right, and conclude that all that was done was to cause unnecessary pain and humiliation.

I didn't say that, or if I did, I didn't mean to. I meant that as torturing the Japs in those camps yielded virtually no useful intelligence, according to Mr Fixit, then the only result of torturing them was to humiliate and degrade them. If you feel that national fear justifies torturing civilian prisoners just in case they know something (which Mr Fixit says, by and large, they didn't), then I'm surprised at you.

Ummm, YES you did!

What's surprising is that no matter what is said, you keep going back to the digs on Americans. i am not up for you downing my country and the people in it any longer. You behave as though we all just lined up to be assholes to every other country, and have an utter disregard for the fact that we disagree with most of it.

And you have a problem with FixIt's use of the word "fuckers". Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiitttttttt, man, that's enough. Your country's prince is right there on the front lines too. Your country has been following our lead -- even with the idiot that we have in office.

Here's my FINAL standpoint on this issue...

If we have absolute proof, as in the case of Abu Zubaydah, who was obviously a terrorist, and that person is not being forthcoming with intel that might save lives, and since this form of torture is much less extreme........waterboard the FUCKER! Beat the FUCKER until he caves! Compared to my American son, this FUCKER matters NOT.

And i will not debate with someone who uses so many forms of insult and degradation to prove a point. Funny that you are so high and mighty. Remember that Americans were once from across the pond also. You are correct in saying that your country laid the groundwork for the mess in the middle east, and your country also laid the groundwork for this mess right here, if you really want to get down to brass tacks.

As for sleeper cells, they're in your country too, and attacked your subway systems. You have whole communities of sleeper cells (several were interviewed on international TV, hooded and proud of what they'd done, right there in London!). But you go on and ask them nicely to please o please stop, and they just might.

Y'all have fun, i'm out.