Quote Originally Posted by Silke
Yes, I do think you have to discipline kids when they fuck up, but I also think that the measures should be more carefully thought out. I don't want to see a kid stealing a candy bar to go to jail, either.
I never implied that people (should) go to jail for stealing candy. Society is far more leniant on child misbehavior than it is on adult misbehavior, and rightly so. But if no one teaches kids some rather basic right-from-wrong-ness, how will they know?

Quote Originally Posted by Silke
See, that's what I meant when I said that we shouldn't make the decision for or against abortion too easy. I don't want children to go to a clinic without talking to anyone about this, it's irresponsible and I agree that they might not learn a great deal from that.
In an adult situation, if a parent (i'd say about 99% of the time the male) does not wish to be a part of the childs life, then there exist ways of forcing the parent (through a court of law) to pay child support. The mechanisms are all there; I just find it incredibly... horrid? (if thats the right word) that it ever comes to that.

The fact that its females, not males, that have to endure pregnancies is, for better or worse, a biological fact. You can't change it, and if you look back far enough, has had a huge impact on society.

However, if the male in a relationship decides that he isn't going to care for the child, there are mechanisms for forcing him to pay some minimal child support (through a court of law). I find it horrible that it ever comes to that, but as you said there are ways of evening things out somewhat.

Teen pregnancies are just completely... stupid. In every way. Not only does it ruin the life of the mother, but the child is going to have a difficult life; it doesn't say much positive about the father either. (Although the father gets off significantly better, through no doing of his own really). The best way to describe them is sad. And utterly retarded. There is no easy way to deal with them since the problem is about so much more than just abortions.

And Warbaby1943 mentioned that the male has no say in wether an abortion should be done. In the case where the male is a present, and active participant, he should have a big say in if an abortion can be carried out. I don't know enough about the law (and I suspect it differs in states) as to the fathers legal rights with respect to abortions, but good point. If the father dissapears, then who cares what he thinks?