Quote Originally Posted by Master Cromac
A sumissive has the right to set hard limits. You can approach these limits and push the slowely and over time she might change but not quickly. Most subs I have know have a hard limiy of animals and kids, It is so much easier to deal with a slave, there are no limits because she trusts you to bring her through the experience safely.
Yeah, I agree with Aesop here. This is not my "definition" of a slave. I too dislike hard and fast definitions. It all depends on the people involved and requires a consensus of opinion.

And what does safety have to do with it? Many hard limits have nothing to do with the issue of safety. Slaves, as you've defined it are far and few inbetween...

The issue here is that regardless of the relationship, the sub's limits have been stated and John would like to violate them... I think he's bored with his toy.