Sentence Fragments and Run-on sentences

[Clevernick]

Okay, now that I feel you're taking things seriously, I will respond in kind.

Instant response: phrases can be written without verbs, for example - instant response, showing that a phrase can be used in writing, although you say it can't:-

What an incredible day! (No verb, so not a sentence. Allowed only in speech.)

(And notice that you yourself followed your illustration with two more written phrases.)

Right. Hence the differences between the spoken register(s) and several written registers. This is an online discussion forum, and we're both writing in a casual register, much as we'd speak. As someone mentioned in the other forum, first-person narration is in a more casual register as well, and can also have sentence fragments and break other rules. So all you're saying is right.

My being belittling (for which I apologize) was not because you correctly pointed out that sometimes you can break the rules. It's because you were vague about it, and implied that it meant these rules were irrelevant or not useful. Or that they should simply be ignored.

Quite the opposite -- when publishing (which is what I want this forum to be about), these rules are very relevant. Even the outdated ones like who vs. whom. Any decent editor will know exactly what register you're in at any given moment, and when it's appropriate to be conservative and use "whom" correctly. So knowing exactly when to ignore some or all of the rules is key. Your assertion that they can just be ignored whenever you feel like it is simply chaos.

...I oversimplifed and didn't check. That wasn't bafflegab - it was arrogant laziness. But my mistake makes my case for me: English grammar can be confusing, and for that reason the rules deserve to be flouted.

Well, that doesn't follow for me. Hmm. Other examples perhaps. The law is confusing and should therefore be flouted? No. Proper laboratory procedure is confusing and should therefore be ignored? Nope. Pre-flight equipment checklists are confusing and should be skipped? Hmmm. I can't think of any case where having a confusing set of rules is reason to ignore them.

So if that's the connection I've been missing in your argument, I think I'll choose to just disagree right there. To the contrary, the service an editor provides to a writer and a publisher is a fine knowledge of when each rule applies and when it may be broken. That distinction would serve us aspiring writers here in the forum, too.

These aren't questions on the "fringe" - you object to those (why?).

You're oversimplifying again. What I objected to was dismissing the rules because they are both changing and fuzzy at the edges. ALL matters of human language are constantly changing and fuzzy at the edges. In fact it goes much farther than language. You could substitute "rules of civilized behavior" or "rules of civil law" and still be correct to say they're constantly changing and fuzzy at the edges. But I wouldn't suggest flouting them.

My point isn't that there are no rules, or that they are all useless - that's just you belittling me again. It's just that the rules aren't binding on everyone all the time.

With that understood, I'm not trying to lead a forum about "everyone all the time". (my emphasis above) I'm trying to lead a forum about "how to write so a publisher will want to publish you". And in that case, those rules are darned important. Your observations on how they don't bind everyone at all times are correct, but out of place here.

If you think you can say something better by breaking the rules, go for it.

But do it outside your manuscripts, if you please!

[Mad Lews]

Alas poor Nick,
Such a thankless task .

Grammar is a pain and the bane of many story tellers. I myself am a consummate abuser of commas. Yes there are rules. It's best if we know them as they help make the language a rich and flexible means of communication.
It is also possible to bend and break those rules and still tell a good tale. It's just that if you do it without purpose you might look a little foolish.
Hey, that's never stopped me.
Perhaps that's why god created editors on the eighth day.

Just a thought

Mad Lews

[Shwenn]

I myself am a consummate abuser of commas....

+1

My work is always infested with the little fuckers.