International BDSM question

[Hime]

This question occurred to me and I suddenly need to know the answer.

When people who speak French, Spanish or other languages that have formal and informal modes of address have D/s relationships, is it customary to use the formal mode for one's Dom? I.E. would I call my Master "tu" or "vous"? Or is there not a rule for that?

[ChainsOfGonzo]

If you read Story of O (French author) you will find that O (the slave) does use the formal term for her master, particularly in public.

Whether or not it's universal, I don't know. But every BDSM fan should read Story ofO.

[AdrianaAurora]

My husband is Quebecois and we are both multilingual, but no at most times and especially in play, English works best for us. Afterwards or when trying to calm or comfort me in general, He will often whisper sweet nothings to me in French. Even when my brain is a mush and isn't turned on to make sense of the meaning, just the sound of His voice works. However for that reason, the few things He does communicate to me in His native language, carry immense weight.

And if he wants to read to me in French, I am not exactly going to say no *turns into a puddle*, lol.

[GS42]

In Dutch, as in French, there's a different pronoun to use when adressing someone formally. Thing is, when calling someone 'Master' (or it's translated equivalent), the honourary term follows nearly automatically.

So to answer: No, of course there's no rule, but linguistically it would make sense and personally I do expect the honourary. And I do think it's customary, yes. Sometimes it even bugs me there's no such thing in English. (Or is there anyone here that uses forms like 'Thou' or similar?)

[fetishdj]

I would say it was personal preference. Though one thing that would be interesting to knbow about would be Japanese... they have very strict hierarchial terms of address and very strict rules about how you use them (for example, if asking a question like 'would you like a cup of tea' to a mixed group you have to ask it seperately to each person based on status relative to you) so I imagine there are a lot of similar things in the BDSM world of Japan.

[Polaris]

German is such a stiff language to start with, and at least to me finding the right terms in German has proven to be a challenge. It would not occur to me to use the 'polite', formal form. I use the intimate 'du' -- everything else would make me feel like I were stuck in an rpg played by terrible roleplayers only It just has this ancient and slightly ridiculous touch to me...if I'm using the formal forms it's mostly in a sarcastic, exaggerated manner. Anyway, I guess it's a matter of preference, just like everything else

[DtM]

Typically in French, if you are addressing someone intimately, the use of "tu" is made by the older to the younger, while "vous" is used by the younger to the older.

Carried over to the lifestyle, I would say sub addressing Dom would be "vous" and Dom to sub would be "tu".

Hope this helps, have a Great Day!

D.

[denuseri]

Something simular occurs in japanese with the uses of honnorifics such as sama, san, and chan, typically san is added to the name (not nessesarally the title) of another in the case of equals as a common sign of respect, when address a superiour the honorific sama is sometimes added instead just as when chan is used to address a child or person of intimate lower status basically the lower status deffers to thier betters more formally as the superior or dominants reffer more informally to those beneath them, though the use of chan is considered endearing and or affectionate

a direct translation of the english word for "Master" into japanese is insuficient as ther are many different types of masters in japanese each with different words used to describe them, Meijin for instance may suffice for some but Kacho might be more appropriate for others whereas Kunshu or Shihaisha (words for lord or master or ruler) are certianly safer and more formally appropriate in such circumstances as bdsm, allthough Sensei is also appropriate when addressing some one that is teaching yu something,

btw the name for slave is the common Dorei or Dorei Sekkusu to refer to a sex slave

[denuseri]

Of course if you throw it as Sekkusu Dorei it will also be understood but i would imajine most Dominants would simple use Dorei or the name of the slave with chann added to the back.

[jacknight]

No rule for that. Some D/s even forgo the master/mistress bit.

[Ozme52]

<<== No mere Oz-san...


Call me Oz-sama!! I am your Daimyo!

[Arria]

No general rule applies in Germany.
I find the idea of "general rules" totally ridiculous anyway.
What is done or not is the decision of the people who have the relationship, and NO ONE ELSE, period!

Of course there is the Wannabe/D-s/both fraction who tells everyone their opinion, especially if no one asked them to do so.

It has been - oh see the significance - here in chat that a German "Domme" gave me the lengthy, highly boring "but as a sub you should have smallcaps and your Dom´s name in this collar-bracket thing" etc. speech.

What I can say for Germans is that the majority I met in the BDSM area apparently LOVE to be tiresome, boring, tedious, patronizing, judgemental, intolerant, unbearable know-it-alls.
This is also the case in the German online forums, which is the reason why I so hugely enjoy being here!

End of rant, thanks for listening.

As for my Dom and me: He would fall over laughing if I addressed him as "Sie"/formal, yet he is the best Dom I ever met. He is strong enough to let me be me, and does not expect me to be a doormat.

[gagged_Louise]

Yes, I'm with Arria here, there's no rules that were handed down by the Gods. In French tu used to be very exclusive, only between close friends - even within the family kids would be expected to address their parents by vous, and ceratinly at school it was the overall word, but that's kind of changed in the last forty-fifty years - some places at least.

Swedish has few honorific modes of address, and there's a lack of words that would feel useful for titles if you want it formal in a D/s relationship. To use slyna/slampa (slut), slav (slave), hora/luder (whore), mästare (Master) or härskarinna (ruling woman/Domme) in front of the name would come out stilted like hell or even tasteless. The English words Sir, Mistress, Master and the like sound much more useful for titles.

[AdrianaAurora]

"but as a sub you should have smallcaps and your Dom´s name in this collar-bracket thing" etc. speech.

Oh, those are my favourite...to teach a lesson to, , lol. I do, often, capitalize letters when addressing my Husband, but thats because He earned it; it comes naturally. I, however, don't lower (unless in mistake, lol) mine, I figure He is Dom enough to deal with me in capitalized letters, lol.

But that is just how I perceive that. This isn't a rant against subs who do it out of respect for their Masters, just against those who don't understand that - respect is earned, it cant be demanded.

[Arria]

@ AdrianaAurora: Exactly. As a matter of fact, my hubby has been using his nick dorsch in smallcaps all over the web since the early 90´s, and he sees no reason why he should change it to make some idiots happy (now is that a Dom quality? lol).

He would not expect me to have even-smaller caps *giggles*, he really couldn´t care less.

He knows he has my respect and affection and love in REAL LIFE; he knows I am not going to let anyone else "collar" me, not even online - he does not share well, lol -, and as long as that is guaranteed, I am free to be under my own name with whatever caps I want.

What shuts such stupid know-it-alls up quite quickly is exactly that: That I do as my Dom wants me to, and obey no one else.
(They do not dare to encourage me to go against his will for some reason.)

As for the titles thing: I think it would be nice, at least in play, to use a title, because I like the idea a lot, sometimes - but whenever I tried it, it just made us both laugh a lot, so well, it is not his thing, and does not work. *g*

Oh well, I call him "Massa Bwana" if I am teasing him... and yes, THAT has painful consequences. *grins*

I figure the smallcaps/collar-name thing might have more significance/importance for the online-only crowd, because they lack all the options a real life commitment has.

[bip0lar]

well, as far as Greek is concerned, we're basically the same as the French and Spanish [sorry, those are the other languages I know, so the only ones I can compare to ], which, and i find it really odd, doesn't suit me. I've met a couple of Greek dominants, I just couldn't bring myself to speak to them in the plural, it ended up in me having giggling fits and them glaring. It just doesn't sound right--although in French a 'vous' comes out much more naturally than a 'tu'.
Concerning capitalisation, well... I don't do it. And i don't really like it, either. I find it's kinda faking it, i really do like the saying 'respect should be earned and is not granted' and that goes for everybody in my book. And, to be honest, i don't believe that i show my respect to anybody by capitalising their nickname.
Maybe it's also due to the fact that i'm used to typing and don't bother with capitalising even the 'i' unless it's at the beginning of a sentence. Word does it for me, lol.

--no offense to all of you who capitalise, i have nothing against it, really, just not my thing--