Why Nobama

[mkemse]

FOX News Poll: Obama's Edge Over McCain Narrows
The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...ccain-narrows/

Then it comes as an equal balance, Fox is very conservative as a network and they will find pols that show Mccain creping up
In reality the ONLY pol that counts is the one that start Tuesaday Night after all the voting is done

CNN has Obama with 307 Electorl Votes McCain with 157, based on States that are projected to go either Red or Blue, but until the real toals come in Tuesday night, nobody real knows, and ifg they did i recommend the buy lotso f lottery tickets

[mkemse]

FOX News Poll: Obama's Edge Over McCain Narrows
The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...ccain-narrows/

and do i believe the CNN poll showing Obama with 307 Electorla Votes and McCain at 156 or 167 NO I qill only believe what I see and hear Tueday night, when reality sets in, that won't bespecyulation it will be fact baed on votes actualy cast and counted

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Socialism has proven to fail everywhere it has been tried, why does anyone think it will work here?

There's a huge difference between Social Democracies and Socialism. Just as no pure Democracy has ever worked long-term, no pure Socialist government has worked long term. This isn't exactly new news.

Reference: Central Intelligence Agency World Factbook (online edition)

The U.S. pays more for health care than any nation on earth yet there are 44 countries with infant mortality rates lower than ours. There are 42 countries with life spans greater than ours. We lag behind in education level, literacy, and prison population as a % of general population to name a few more. One thing that stands out is those that are ahead of us in those areas are overwhelmingly Social Democracies. Social programs aren't all automatically bad because the word "Social" is in them.

[QuietMaster]

FOX News Poll: Obama's Edge Over McCain Narrows

The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.

The aggregate national support does not determine the election of the President.

Obama's lead over McCain varies from 3% to 11% -- with a national average of 6% -- as of October 30.

Obama has solidified the states that traditionally supports the Democrats while McCain is struggling to maintain those that are traditionally Republicans.

The actual support from state to state determines the outcome of the Presidential election based on the Electoral College votes gained by each party.

There are indications that McCain might perhaps even loose his home state - Arizona - support for Obama and McCain are very close. That is not good news for McCain in the last days of the election.

The real and true poll will be determined after the votes are counted on November 04, 2008.

[QuietMaster]

I would hope that it is obvious. Why for me NObama:

....

Which is why I didnt vote fo Obama, what he believes in will only usher in our fall

Each individual, of course, arrives at conclusion to vote for a candidate, based on his/her specific assesment.

I recognize and appreciate your explanation of your views.

Some of your points were addressed by others.

I will address one item in another post.

[QuietMaster]

Socialism has proven to fail everywhere it has been tried, why does anyone think it will work here?

1. In what specific ways do you see that happening in the United States?

2. Is the US Government's "bail out / support" to financial institutions a capitalist or societal intervention -- recognizing that it is a form of nationalization and direct government's management?

[QuietMaster]

One symptom is we have a negative birth rate now in both weastern Europe and America which is a direct result of the decline of family values, more and more family is pushed aside for the sake of individual feedom or choice.

Low or negative birth rates all too often are a warning sign of cultural decline, it happened to the Greeks, and the Romans,

Now it happens to us.

Number one offender for this, liberal feminism.

Feminism ... or women's rights is not the cause for low birth rate nor the decline in family values.

Historically, women in the United States, [ in the 1700's and 1800's ] were deprived of their basic rights to vote. I believe that is was in 1920, that women gained the right to vote.

In Canada, women were considered as " non persons" with no rights. When a group of women presented their case, in April, 1928, the Supreme Court of Canada determined/reconfirmed that women were not considered persons by the law of the land.

The matter was presented to the Privy Council in Great Britain which overruled the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada and declared in October 1929 that "Women are persons".

From that time, women in Canada gained the right to vote and the rights to numerous things that were deprived from thrm.

Historically, this is known as the "Women as Persons" case, a significant era for women in Canada.

The achievement, both in Canada and in the United States, can hardly be considered as liberal feminism that negatively impacts the advancements for women, their individual freedon and abilities to make their own personal choices.

[QuietMaster]

Traditions involving the family, religion and morality have been shoved aside as backwards or ignorant. And replaced with the worship of the scientific state, be politically correct or be branded a dinosuar, speak aginst it and you are a fanatic.

Both in Canada and the United States, there is a distinct separation of State and Church.

Belief/non-belief in religion is a personal matter between an individual, his/her family and his/her place of worship.

Each individual should respect another person and should not foist his/her religious beliefs and traditions on others.

Can you elaborate on where/how the State/Government has enacted laws, regulations, directives, etc., for people to:

a. Worship the scientific state.

b. Neglect their religious beliefs and traditions?

[mkemse]

The aggregate national support does not determine the election of the President.

Obama's lead over McCain varies from 3% to 11% -- with a national average of 6% -- as of October 30.

Obama has solidified the states that traditionally supports the Democrats while McCain is struggling to maintain those that are traditionally Republicans.

The actual support from state to state determines the outcome of the Presidential election based on the Electoral College votes gained by each party.

There are indications that McCain might perhaps even loose his home state - Arizona - support for Obama and McCain are very close. That is not good news for McCain in the last days of the election.

The real and true poll will be determined after the votes are counted on November 04, 2008.

Youyr last line of your post, is the TRUE story of it all, the REAL Poll will tell lthre whole story and that one will not be complete til Nov 4th or early Nov 5th depeprnding on how long itt ake to count ACTUAL votes the results turdays are the oinly ones that coun,t you can loo a a milloin polls but tuesdays rersults are all that matter now

[Muskan]

Which Obama association troubles you most?
Partial list:
*Tony Rezko
*William Ayers
*Rashid Khalidi
*Rev. Michael Pfleger
*ACORN
*Frank Marshall Davis
*Rev. Jeremiah Wright
*Rev. James T. Meeks
*Other(s)
*All
*None, I support Obama unconditionally
For more information (click on link below each name): http://www.barackobamaassociates.info/

[Muskan]

Here's a prediction of the future if McCain is elected, in picture form:
http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-conte.../johnhurtv.jpg
Here's a prediction of the future if Obama is elected, in picture form:
http://www.cineclub.de/images/2006/0...vendetta-2.jpg
The election is more than just close in terms of likely victor; it's an alarming future no matter what.
Neither of them are worth the paper the ballot is printed on. It's not just people like George W. Bush, but the fact that Americans have been lulled into things like "War on Drugs" or "War on Poverty" or "The New Deal" and a false dichotomy of two and only two selections for president, or any Congressional seat for that matter. That's what bothers me. It's why I feel America deserves to be fucked for another four years - because the last 8 years didn't teach anyone any lessons.
I miss Ron Paul in the race. Well he never was, what a shame! (not that Ron Paul is excellent for the post, but he is surely the best amongst the present)!

Anyways, GoodLuck America for the further exploitation of four years.

But, who can predict what will happen after four years?

I fear Obama getting the populist votes, will change the basic definitions of liberty in america and will cause an un-erasable effect. While Maccain is not that much effective, thats why he is lesser evil of the two great evils.

[mkemse]

Which Obama association troubles you most?
Partial list:
*Tony Rezko
*William Ayers
*Rashid Khalidi
*Rev. Michael Pfleger
*ACORN
*Frank Marshall Davis
*Rev. Jeremiah Wright
*Rev. James T. Meeks
*Other(s)
*All
*None, I support Obama unconditionally
For more information (click on link below each name): http://www.barackobamaassociates.info/

1. All he did was buy land from the guy, if i wasassociatedwith people i bought hings from and later they turned ou t bad i woiuld be alienatedfrom the world
2. Wlliams Ayers: he association was when is was 8 years old Obmama was raisedi n Haieaii and did not rretuen to work in chicago til he finished college

Rashid Khalidi- Khaldi started an community based serivce organiszation JOHN MCAin was the Chair of that committee, based on a article posat on yahoo new on wednesday oct 28 or 29

asfat as the other, if you make friend with people as you grow up in this world and of your 30 friends, 5 or 6 come under suspicion for missdeads or illegal activities but oyu have only asscoaited withthat or those people a few tiems, i hard feel that is guilt by association, as far as the Reverands go, Wright and meeks Obmam has countless times, denouced Wrights Remarks, the same with some ofthe others

what is impied herei s GUILT ONLY buy association

If i buy a house from someone convicted of fraud, am i guilty of guilt by associaition 5 years later simply because i knew the guy, therei s on proff i haveseem that Obmam had along term friendship with Resko, and r#zko donated to many Republicans and Democrats in various states over the years
What our nation has to do, is concentrate on the issue we face, where Obmam and MccAin stnad on ect issue and vote basedo n that, not on who they associatedwithy ears agom who Obmam hung outwith when he was 8 which is 40 years isago, i could care ess, did McCainrealy chair an community sercie organization Started by Rashid Khalidi?? if he did but is no longer associatedwith him, who cares, let';s get back to theissues in thiselection and get away from insults insinuationsd and dirt throuwing, enough is enough already on the dirst throwing

BTW Fox news conducteda surrey on Wed Oct 28, and found poeple felt his commcerial were more attacking on Obam then Obmama's on him, they sya that 585 of Obmam's commcerials, dela with thei ssues inthis campaign season, were 23% feel McCain is NOT explainig his view on most usses and if simlpy aatacking Obmama

Let's get throughthis stop all theattacks, insunuations, insult, wha tthe candidate did 5, 10 or 40 years ago and simpyl discuss what each candicate plans to do on each issue, I have only heard 1 candidate continuoulsy tell there plan for our issues

NOT thisi s not in defense of Obmama, NO thisi s not in defense of McCaobn or insupport of either

YES thisi s saying with 5 days left to go, let's deal with inssues that will effetc us then next 4 years and vehins, what their solutionbs are andstop the name calling enough of the namecalling aready i can't wait til 12am Wednesday Nov 5, all comcercials will be over, wh everwuins wins and we can move on with our lives
This repy does not support or is not intended to sUpporteither Candidate but rather just say let's move on. vote and be done with it

btw who do you want in 20102?? (LOL coulnd't reisist that)

I would like to add to part of my posth ere this is from yahoo new on oct 28 2008 regarding Rashid Khalidi- McCain Chair this organization that Khaldi started see the article below

ELECTION 2008
McCain gave funds to group co-founded by Khalidi
But organization pro-Western, Obama supported professor's anti-Israel efforts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 29, 2008
6:29 pm Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily



Rashid Khalidi
JERUSALEM – Sen. John McCain chaired an organization that granted substantial funding to a Palestinian research group co-chaired by Mideast professor Rashid Khalidi, a harsh critic of Israel and apologist for Palestinian terror.

The report – first carried by the Huffington Post website – comes amid harsh criticism from McCain's campaign of Sen. Barack Obama for his personal and financial ties to Khalidi.

The website documented how in the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several documented grants, including one worth about half a million dollars, to the Center for Palestine Research and Studies, or CPRS, a West Bank organization associated with Khalidi.

Unreported by the Huffington Post is that the CPRS, with which Khalidi was for a time moderately involved, is pro-Western and can be characterized as pro-Israel.

Its work has been condemned by the Palestinian leadership and by local terror groups as "Zionist propaganda."

In contrast, the Khalidi organization Obama helped fund as a board member for a nonprofit, alongside domestic terrorist William Ayers, has taken a flagrantly anti-Israel line. Khalidi's Arab American Action Network has hosted scores of Israel-bashing events, including at least one reportedly attended by Obama.

[Muskan]

btw who do you want in 20102?

Neither I want Obama in 2008, nor I would like to see him in 2012.

He is a curse, and he won't change, he may cause a change to america though, making it a hell!

[Muskan]

And mksme,

you just needed to opt for the last option
*None I support Obama unconditionally!

You wasted aot of words you know!
When an Individual doesnot like REGULATING his own words by his own self, how can he support regulating whole/everybody's economy? How can he support socialism?

He should NOT!

[mkemse]

btw who do you want in 20102?

Neither I want Obama in 2008, nor I would like to see him in 2012.

He is a curse, and he won't change, he may cause a change to america though, making it a hell!

I will wait to 2012 to decide that, i might even writei n a Candicate 1 Person I would lke to see run but they would neevr gain enough support to make a serious run is Ron Paul but beforei decide about 4 yearsfrom now i would like to see who wins days days from now

Christohper Buckley, son of the Late William F Buckely has endorsed obmama

Mike Huckabee's form Campaign Manager I believe from New Jersey was the same for MccAin annoounced 2 days ago he is leaving the MccAin campaign and endoring Obmam, Colin Powel has endorsed Obam The Alaks Tribune Palins own Paper has endorsed Obmam, the Chicago Tribune who in it's entire histiry has neevr ever endorsed a Democrac for Prseodent has endorsed Oama if Obmam is soo bad for this Country why are all these well know Conservatives and Conservative newspaper enditong Baravck and why won't Sarah Palin own Alaska's Tribune even endorse her?? makes one think

My insticnts tell me if McCain loses it will be do far more to his VP selcltion then his stand on issues those who have endorsed Obmama say as did the Alaska Tribune that Palin is just to risky to take of for Mccain if need be

[mkemse]

And mksme,

you just needed to opt for the last option
*None I support Obama unconditionally!

You wasted aot of words you know!
When an Individual doesnot like REGULATING his own words by his own self, how can he support regulating whole/everybody's economy? How can he support socialism?

He should NOT!

I do not see where i posted that i support Obmam unconditionaly, i do not recall posting that??

[mkemse]

FINI (on this thread anyway)

[Muskan]

Obama is a Socialist.

He will do the final blow to a dying republic.
The founding fathers of this great republic feared Democracy, which is why they wanted the citizens armed.
Democracy has a terrible flaw. When the vote spreads out to all the people, instead of just the productive people, the masses begin to vote themselves bigger shares of the treasury. Thus begins the decline and fall of every democracy and it plunges into tyranny.

Tyranny ends in violent overthrow, but this most often just leads to more tyranny. It is rare that a Republic such as the United States is established.

[lucy]

Wow, that's one hot discussion here. One could think you're voting for the next God for the next 2000 years.
Lemme reassure you: You're not.
You're merely voting for a president. If he fucks up, you have the next chance to correct your decision in two years, by voting republicans into congress. That's one of the many great things about democracy: It's rather tolerant towards errors because decisions can be revised.

And: Whether Western civilization in general and American in particular will fall is way beyond every president's power. At least that's what i think and very much hope.

[Muskan]

Lemme reassure you: You're not.

Both of the candidates are EVIL!

Theres no doubt about it!

Its the discussion about who is lesser EVIL.

And nothing is forever!

Even a body needs care and safety precautions!

[skp2bear]

Please remember that most of the trouble this country is in came from Congress who enacts the laws.
Presidents can only make proposals. Nowadays it seems like many of those in Congress only do what increases their own wealth and power.

[DesertDom]

Please remember that most of the trouble this country is in came from Congress who enacts the laws.
Presidents can only make proposals. Nowadays it seems like many of those in Congress only do what increases their own wealth and power.

The flaw in this belief is that the president can make an immediate law by issuing either a directive or an executive order. These basically bypass the checks and balances written into the constitution and have the full force and effect of a law. The constitution originally set up controls where one branch of the government can overrule another by following its normal procedure. EO's and directives basically work outside of those procedures.

Very, very bad thing if used unwisely. I'm not even sure if a court can overrule an executive order, I need to research this more.

[DesertDom]

You're merely voting for a president. If he fucks up, you have the next chance to correct your decision in two years, by voting republicans into congress.

I do have to agree with you here. When Clinton went off the deep end and tried to socialize a lot of stuff early in his first term, voters woke up and turned Congress conservative in 1996.

How soon the average voter forgets the past. We seem doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

[lucy]

How soon the average voter forgets the past. We seem doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Indeed, how else could anyone explain that Americans voted for Dubyou twice
But no worries, we're not smarter in Europe, usually.

[hopperboo]

Indeed, how else could anyone explain that Americans voted for Dubyou twice
But no worries, we're not smarter in Europe, usually.

...you know...I have to say I agree.

But honestly, I don't think anyone knew what a mess He would make in the next 4 years.

The only reason he got the predenciy again was because of 9/11. I think people didn't have enough faith in how John Kerry would handle things.



Obviously faith in Bush was misplaced. He may very well go down in history as the worst American president.

I stayed up with politics during this whole running because I don't want to make a mistake again. And I truly don't believe McCain would be a second Bush, or a mistake.



(Haha, I couldn't help myself to post again).

[DesertDom]

Indeed, how else could anyone explain that Americans voted for Dubyou twice
But no worries, we're not smarter in Europe, usually.

That is perhaps an unfair question based on current perceptions vs perceptions of 4 years ago, but go ahead and take your shot.

Bush was riding a decent popularity wave at the time and had broad based support across the political spectrum except for the extreme kook left wing. Kerry was viewed as an east coast european style ( French, worst of all at the time) elitest who had very little broad based support and was supported by most liberals only because he was their candidate.

It is not surprising he lost, the Dems picked a lousy choice at the time. Kind of how the Reps could have picked a much better candidate this time.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

That is perhaps an unfair question based on current perceptions vs perceptions of 4 years ago, but go ahead and take your shot.

Bush was riding a decent popularity wave at the time and had broad based support across the political spectrum except for the extreme kook left wing. Kerry was viewed as an east coast european style ( French, worst of all at the time) elitest who had very little broad based support and was supported by most liberals only because he was their candidate.

It is not surprising he lost, the Dems picked a lousy choice at the time. Kind of how the Reps could have picked a much better candidate this time.

Bush - 50.7% of the popular vote, Kerry - 48.3% of the popular vote
Bush - 286 Electoral votes, Kerry - 251 Electoral votes

Now exactly where is this "broad based support across the political spectrum" you speak of? Rovian tactics worked in 2004. Fear won.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

The flaw in this belief is that the president can make an immediate law by issuing either a directive or an executive order. These basically bypass the checks and balances written into the constitution and have the full force and effect of a law. The constitution originally set up controls where one branch of the government can overrule another by following its normal procedure. EO's and directives basically work outside of those procedures.

Very, very bad thing if used unwisely. I'm not even sure if a court can overrule an executive order, I need to research this more.

..and don't forget "Signing Statements" that Bush has used more than any President in history. If I recall correctly he has doubled the total of all Presidents before him. This will probably end up playing out in the Supreme Court somewhere along the line as it is a real challenge to the checks and balances endemic to the constitution.

(For those who don't know, a signing statement is a formal document signed by the President that states certain parts of the law he is signing will not be enforced.)

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Obama is a Socialist.

He will do the final blow to a dying republic.
The founding fathers of this great republic feared Democracy, which is why they wanted the citizens armed.
Democracy has a terrible flaw. When the vote spreads out to all the people, instead of just the productive people, the masses begin to vote themselves bigger shares of the treasury. Thus begins the decline and fall of every democracy and it plunges into tyranny.

Tyranny ends in violent overthrow, but this most often just leads to more tyranny. It is rare that a Republic such as the United States is established.

Obama is not a socialist, not even close.

The Founding Fathers did not fear Democracy. They created a representative democracy based primarily on Lockian ideals that utilized the best of democratic principles of one person, one vote. It was an extraordinary accomplishment of creating a government from an idea, instead of along tribal, racial, or conquerored lines.

The second amendment will be debated ad infinitum I am quite sure. Remember this was the 18th century and was written in the aftermath of a long and vicious war. It wasn't democracy they wanted an armed citizenry to be able to overthrow, it was the fear of a tyrannical leader taking charge and not living up to the constitution. I am personally certain it wasn't written into the constitution so some group of lame-brained idiots could get their jollies by going to indiscriminately shoot their AK-47's, Uzi's, Desert Eagles, and .50 cal Barretts in the pathetic assumption it will make them more of a man.

Edit: Anyway, I'm out of here until post-vote. Its always fun playing with the other side. Thanks for the chance.

[hopperboo]

Obama is not a socialist, not even close.

I beg to differ.

(Get it, I'm a sub and I am begging to differ...).

Seriously though, he is a Socialist.