Why Nobama

[DesertDom]

Bush - 50.7% of the popular vote, Kerry - 48.3% of the popular vote
Bush - 286 Electoral votes, Kerry - 251 Electoral votes

Now exactly where is this "broad based support across the political spectrum" you speak of? Rovian tactics worked in 2004. Fear won.

Hmm, the actual numbers speak for themselves.

Bush won a majority of the votes in 31 states vs 19 states for Kerry. Of those 31 states, Bush had a greater than 10% margin of victory in 17 of them. Sounds pretty broad based to me.

Viewed in that fashion, you could call it a landslide, couldn't you?

Given that CA and NY account for 86 electoral votes, take those 2 states out of the count and Kerry would have had less than 170 electoral votes and +- 11 million fewer votes.

I stand by my earlier statements, Bush's popularity was much higher in 2004 and Kerry was a weak candidate.

I am not looking forward to the red / blue map next week, though.

[skp2bear]

Early voting ended here in Houston, Tx. (Harris County). at 7 pm. They just announced that 700,000 people which is 40% of all registered voters have already vored.

[DesertDom]

Early voting ended here in Houston, Tx. (Harris County). at 7 pm. They just announced that 700,000 people which is 40% of all registered voters have already vored.

The early voting is way beyond expectations here in Arizona also. Since they can not announce any counts, no clue as to what this trend means.

[mkemse]

The early voting is way beyond expectations here in Arizona also. Since they can not announce any counts, no clue as to what this trend means.

My understanding from the radio is that these trends mean nothing but more younger people then usual or first time voting for them more Black voters are voting maybe for the first time both both
But they said a huge early voting is do to young adults and Black Americans who do not want to risk waiting in line on Tuesday so they are voting early to avoid lines.
they can NOT take exit polls ect til after poles start to close on Tuesdays, the votes cast early are simply locked away and neither counted or merged with other votes til tuesday, they are NOT allowing exit pols on early voting from what I understand

[skp2bear]

During my 3 hours in line there were few young people or blackes heavy hispanic, seniors,small business people, and Islamics. From those I talked to McCain may not have Texas so locked up. Thirty people I spoke with were republicans voting fer Obama.

[mkemse]

During my 3 hours in line there were few young people or blackes heavy hispanic, seniors,small business people, and Islamics. From those I talked to McCain may not have Texas so locked up. Thirty people I spoke with were republicans voting fer Obama.

In my area we have no seen this kind of early voting before but this is the first time our State (Il) has allowed early voting outside of primaries)
I was lucky i livei n asmall town and got in and out in 15 minutes during thre week right before 12pm byt they said their lines had dissapeared about a week ago
Ill is projecting a state wide turnout of 75-80%, which may be a bit to high but they said it will be the biggest we have had in years if ever

[mkemse]

The early voting is way beyond expectations here in Arizona also. Since they can not announce any counts, no clue as to what this trend means.

Thanks, you are 100% correct no early totals can be annouced nor can exit polls be taken til tuesday til polls close on Tuesaday just lock them up til tursday

[X]

surely political policies should be the reason to vote for the new leader of the free world. during an economic chrisis that is only going to get much much worse. your vote should be cast on who is best equiped to lead us all out of a recession. who did "this and that" should be put to one side in this very hard and extremely taxing time. again wich will only get worse. vote for the man with the best policies not the man who can give the best speach or tell the best jokes. use your heads dont be sheep. do whats right. end of rant

[skp2bear]

The final totals in Harris County, Texas were just ynder 800,00 the largset in history and they expect another 700,00 on Tuesday! If nothing else They've got the voters motivated. I'll bet the ratings on election returns Tuesday night will be sky high.

[mkemse]

The final totals in Harris County, Texas were just ynder 800,00 the largset in history and they expect another 700,00 on Tuesday! If nothing else They've got the voters motivated. I'll bet the ratings on election returns Tuesday night will be sky high.

As I underastand it Nation Wide, they say the National Turn Out this year could be the biggest in History or if not the biggest in many decades
No one seems to recall voters regeristing in as large numbers nation wide as they are or have this year

Who ever wins, this will be an Historic Election, either the First Female VP or the First Black President

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Hmm, the actual numbers speak for themselves.

Bush won a majority of the votes in 31 states vs 19 states for Kerry. Of those 31 states, Bush had a greater than 10% margin of victory in 17 of them. Sounds pretty broad based to me.

Viewed in that fashion, you could call it a landslide, couldn't you?

Given that CA and NY account for 86 electoral votes, take those 2 states out of the count and Kerry would have had less than 170 electoral votes and +- 11 million fewer votes.

I stand by my earlier statements, Bush's popularity was much higher in 2004 and Kerry was a weak candidate.

I am not looking forward to the red / blue map next week, though.

Counting states is just acreage, area, square miles. That has absolutely no bearing on the subject. So, if you subtract electoral college votes from Kerry he would have less. Wow...that's insightful. Support of the people is the measure. Bush received a whopping .7% plurality against a weak candidate that ran a weak race. Ah heck, I'm just disagreeing for fun and entertainment.

I will agree on one point though, Bush was much more popular in 2004.....compared to Bush in 2008, that is...22% approval rating. He's tied Harry Truman's rating after he fired Gen. McArthur.

[DesertDom]

Counting states is just acreage, area, square miles. That has absolutely no bearing on the subject. So, if you subtract electoral college votes from Kerry he would have less. Wow...that's insightful. Support of the people is the measure. Bush received a whopping .7% plurality against a weak candidate that ran a weak race. Ah heck, I'm just disagreeing for fun and entertainment.

I will agree on one point though, Bush was much more popular in 2004.....compared to Bush in 2008, that is...22% approval rating. He's tied Harry Truman's rating after he fired Gen. McArthur.

Hmm, I had assumed that you were aware of the Electoral College process. Since the US uses that quaint system, winning a state ( acreage, area, square miles, etc) is the most important thing that can be done in a presidential election. Win the state, get the electoral votes. First one to 270 wins.

**** I am sure that you are aware of the electoral process and were being deliberately obtuse in your response. *****

The point about CA and NY is that they are bastions of liberalism and are usually check marks in the Dem electoral count total. Take those totals away and the race was even more one sided.

I'm not a fan of the Electoral process, does not seem quite right for someone to win the popular vote, but lose the election. But, maybe the writers of the constitution knew what they were doing when they foresaw heavily populated states overshadowing rural states. The system we have now still gives too much power to large populations.

Popular voting totals is not the answer and giving 1 vote to each state is not the way to go either. I'm not sure what the best way would be, but given how things are bogged down, the chances of a constitutional amendment to revise this are slim and none.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Hmm, I had assumed that you were aware of the Electoral College process. Since the US uses that quaint system, winning a state ( acreage, area, square miles, etc) is the most important thing that can be done in a presidential election. Win the state, get the electoral votes. First one to 270 wins.

**** I am sure that you are aware of the electoral process and were being deliberately obtuse in your response. *****

The point about CA and NY is that they are bastions of liberalism and are usually check marks in the Dem electoral count total. Take those totals away and the race was even more one sided.

I'm not a fan of the Electoral process, does not seem quite right for someone to win the popular vote, but lose the election. But, maybe the writers of the constitution knew what they were doing when they foresaw heavily populated states overshadowing rural states. The system we have now still gives too much power to large populations.

Popular voting totals is not the answer and giving 1 vote to each state is not the way to go either. I'm not sure what the best way would be, but given how things are bogged down, the chances of a constitutional amendment to revise this are slim and none.

Damn, another of my seemingly wonderful(to me) sarcasm shots went off track. My point was you can't just "take away" votes to make your point seem better. So following your line of reasoning if I remove those bastions of conservatism that always vote Republican my point would be better made?

Couldn't agree more that the anachronistic electoral college system is woefully in need of repair. Maybe a parliamentary system of sorts? I'm unsure, really. In the end it kind of works more than it doesn't work, primarily to that free speech and free press thing we have going,

[denuseri]

With the election day finally here I figured I would leave the thread with a parting view written by someone else. I got this in an email from a friend and alltough I dont agree with all of it, far far too much of it rings true.

I also got a disturbing email from another friend with a clip from the howard stern show were they were interviewing people on the street that said they were going to vote for Obama, The interviewer then proceeded to ask them questions representing McCain and Palins views as those of Obamas instead, it was rather shocking when the people claimed to be deciding thier votes based on the issues yet they all sat there and betrayed thier total ignorance of the actual issues and aggreeded that they were for the (Republican way of doing things) if Obamas name was on it.
(i couldnt get the media clip to load here)

They said yeah sure they supported the war in iraq, were against abortion and thought Palin would make a great VP etc etc, (all the time thinking that Obama was the man, smh they didnt even know who his vp pick was)

Pretty sad

This election is making the founding fathers roll over in thier graves of that much I am sure.


The following 'speech' was written recently by an ordinary Maine-iac [a resident of the People's Republic of Maine. While satirical in nature, all satire must have a basis in fact to be effective. This is an excellent piece by a person who does not write for a living.


The speech George W. Bush might give:



Normally, I start these things out by saying 'My Fellow Americans.' Not doing it this time. If the polls are any indication, I don't know who more than half of you are anymore. I do know something terrible has happened, and that you're really not fellow Americans any longer.

I'll cut right to the chase here: I quit. Now before anyone gets all in a lather about me quitting to avoid impeachment, or to avoid prosecution or something, let me assure you: There's been no breaking of laws or impeachable offenses in this office.



The reason I'm quitting is simple. I'm fed up with you people. I'm fed up because you have no understanding of what's really going on in the world. Or of what's going on in this once-great nation of ours. And the majority of you are too damned lazy to do your homework and figure it out.

Let's start local. You've been sold a bill of goods by politicians and the news media.



Meanwhile, all you can do is whine about gas prices, and most of you are too damn stupid to realize that gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security.

We face real threats in the world. Don't give me this 'blood for oil' thing. If I were trading blood for oil I would've already seized Iraq 's oil fields and let the rest of the country go to hell. And don't give me this 'Bush Lied...People Died' crap either. If I were the liar you morons take me for, I could've easily had chemical weapons planted in Iraq so they could be 'discovered.' Instead, I owned up to the fact that the intelligence was faulty.



Let me remind you that the rest of the world thought Saddam had the goods, same as me. Let me also remind you that regime change in Iraq was official US policy before I came into office. Some guy named ' Clinton ' established that policy. Bet you didn't know that, did you?

Now some of you morons want to be led by a junior senator with no understanding of foreign policy or economics, and this nitwit says we should attack Pakistan , a nuclear ally. And then he wants to go to Iran and make peace with a terrorist who says he's going to destroy us. While he's doing that, he wants to give Iraq to al Qaeda, Afghanistan to the Taliban, Israel to the Palestinians, and your money to the IRS so the government can give welfare to illegal aliens, who he will make into citizens, so they can vote to re-elect him. He also thinks it's okay for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and we should stop our foreign aid to Israel. Did you sleep through high school?

You idiots need to understand that we face a unique enemy. Back during the cold war, there were two major competing political and economic models squaring off. We won that war, but we did so because fundamentally, the Communists wanted to survive, just as we do. We were simply able to out spend and out-tech them.



That's not the case this time. The soldiers of our new enemy don't care if they survive. In fact, they want to die. That'd be fine, as long as they weren't also committed to taking as many of you with them as they can. But they are. They want to kill you, and the bastards are all over the globe.

You should be grateful that they haven't gotten any more of us here in the United States since September 11. But you're not. That's because you've got no idea how hard a small number of intelligence, military, law enforcement, and homeland security people have worked to make sure of that. When this whole mess started, I warned you that this would be a long and difficult fight. I'm disappointed how many of you people think a long and difficult fight amounts to a single season of 'Survivor.'



Instead, you've grown impatient. You're incapable of seeing things through the long lens of history, the way our enemies do. You think that wars should last a few months, a few years, tops.

Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy Every time you buy the New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just as well Fed Ex a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.

In this day and age, it's easy enough to find the truth. It's all over the Internet. It just isn't on the pages of the New York Times, USA Today, or on NBC News. But even if it were, I doubt you'd be any smarter. Most of you would rather watch American Idol or Dancing with Stars.

I could say more about your expectations that the government will always be there to bail you out, even if you're too stupid to leave a city that's below sea level and has a hurricane approaching.



I could say more about your insane belief that government, not your own wallet, is where the money comes from. But I've come to the conclusion that were I to do so, it would sail right over your heads.

So I quit. I'm going back to Crawford. I've got an energy-efficient house down there (Al Gore could only dream) and the capability to be fully self-sufficient for years. No one ever heard of Crawford before I got elected, and as soon as I'm done here pretty much no one will ever hear of it again. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to die of old age before the last pillars of America fall.



Oh, and by the way, Cheney's quitting too. That means Pelosi is your new President. You asked for it. Watch what she does carefully, because I still have a glimmer of hope that there are just enough of you remaining who are smart enough to turn this thing around in 2008.

So that's it. God bless what's left of America.

Some of you know what I mean. The rest of you, kiss off.


PS - You might want to start learning Farsi, and buy a Koran.



I would just like to say it has been nice talking politics with you all and I hope despite everyones differeing viewpoints we can all be friends after the election no matter who wins.

Despite how things may be going in Washington and the rest of the world I scincerly desire that all of you can be safe and happy during the upcoming holiday season.

I also pray that God will grant our law makers and leaders the wisdom nessesary to protect and guide us in the coming years ahead.





Ps: Again Thank You all so much for the interesting debates.

[mkemse]

With the election day finally here I figured I would leave the thread with a parting view written by someone else. I got this in an email from a friend and alltough I dont agree with all of it, far far too much of it rings true.

I also got a disturbing email from another friend with a clip from the howard stern show were they were interviewing people on the street that said they were going to vote for Obama, The interviewer then proceeded to ask them questions representing McCain and Palins views as those of Obamas instead, it was rather shocking when the people claimed to be deciding thier votes based on the issues yet they all sat there and betrayed thier total ignorance of the actual issues and aggreeded that they were for the (Republican way of doing things) if Obamas name was on it.
(i couldnt get the media clip to load here)

They said yeah sure they supported the war in iraq, were against abortion and thought Palin would make a great VP etc etc, (all the time thinking that Obama was the man, smh they didnt even know who his vp pick was)

Pretty sad

This election is making the founding fathers roll over in thier graves of that much I am sure.


The following 'speech' was written recently by an ordinary Maine-iac [a resident of the People's Republic of Maine. While satirical in nature, all satire must have a basis in fact to be effective. This is an excellent piece by a person who does not write for a living.


The speech George W. Bush might give:



Normally, I start these things out by saying 'My Fellow Americans.' Not doing it this time. If the polls are any indication, I don't know who more than half of you are anymore. I do know something terrible has happened, and that you're really not fellow Americans any longer.

I'll cut right to the chase here: I quit. Now before anyone gets all in a lather about me quitting to avoid impeachment, or to avoid prosecution or something, let me assure you: There's been no breaking of laws or impeachable offenses in this office.



The reason I'm quitting is simple. I'm fed up with you people. I'm fed up because you have no understanding of what's really going on in the world. Or of what's going on in this once-great nation of ours. And the majority of you are too damned lazy to do your homework and figure it out.

Let's start local. You've been sold a bill of goods by politicians and the news media.



Meanwhile, all you can do is whine about gas prices, and most of you are too damn stupid to realize that gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security.

We face real threats in the world. Don't give me this 'blood for oil' thing. If I were trading blood for oil I would've already seized Iraq 's oil fields and let the rest of the country go to hell. And don't give me this 'Bush Lied...People Died' crap either. If I were the liar you morons take me for, I could've easily had chemical weapons planted in Iraq so they could be 'discovered.' Instead, I owned up to the fact that the intelligence was faulty.



Let me remind you that the rest of the world thought Saddam had the goods, same as me. Let me also remind you that regime change in Iraq was official US policy before I came into office. Some guy named ' Clinton ' established that policy. Bet you didn't know that, did you?

Now some of you morons want to be led by a junior senator with no understanding of foreign policy or economics, and this nitwit says we should attack Pakistan , a nuclear ally. And then he wants to go to Iran and make peace with a terrorist who says he's going to destroy us. While he's doing that, he wants to give Iraq to al Qaeda, Afghanistan to the Taliban, Israel to the Palestinians, and your money to the IRS so the government can give welfare to illegal aliens, who he will make into citizens, so they can vote to re-elect him. He also thinks it's okay for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and we should stop our foreign aid to Israel. Did you sleep through high school?

You idiots need to understand that we face a unique enemy. Back during the cold war, there were two major competing political and economic models squaring off. We won that war, but we did so because fundamentally, the Communists wanted to survive, just as we do. We were simply able to out spend and out-tech them.



That's not the case this time. The soldiers of our new enemy don't care if they survive. In fact, they want to die. That'd be fine, as long as they weren't also committed to taking as many of you with them as they can. But they are. They want to kill you, and the bastards are all over the globe.

You should be grateful that they haven't gotten any more of us here in the United States since September 11. But you're not. That's because you've got no idea how hard a small number of intelligence, military, law enforcement, and homeland security people have worked to make sure of that. When this whole mess started, I warned you that this would be a long and difficult fight. I'm disappointed how many of you people think a long and difficult fight amounts to a single season of 'Survivor.'



Instead, you've grown impatient. You're incapable of seeing things through the long lens of history, the way our enemies do. You think that wars should last a few months, a few years, tops.

Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy Every time you buy the New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just as well Fed Ex a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.

In this day and age, it's easy enough to find the truth. It's all over the Internet. It just isn't on the pages of the New York Times, USA Today, or on NBC News. But even if it were, I doubt you'd be any smarter. Most of you would rather watch American Idol or Dancing with Stars.

I could say more about your expectations that the government will always be there to bail you out, even if you're too stupid to leave a city that's below sea level and has a hurricane approaching.



I could say more about your insane belief that government, not your own wallet, is where the money comes from. But I've come to the conclusion that were I to do so, it would sail right over your heads.

So I quit. I'm going back to Crawford. I've got an energy-efficient house down there (Al Gore could only dream) and the capability to be fully self-sufficient for years. No one ever heard of Crawford before I got elected, and as soon as I'm done here pretty much no one will ever hear of it again. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to die of old age before the last pillars of America fall.



Oh, and by the way, Cheney's quitting too. That means Pelosi is your new President. You asked for it. Watch what she does carefully, because I still have a glimmer of hope that there are just enough of you remaining who are smart enough to turn this thing around in 2008.

So that's it. God bless what's left of America.

Some of you know what I mean. The rest of you, kiss off.


PS - You might want to start learning Farsi, and buy a Koran.



I would just like to say it has been nice talking politics with you all and I hope despite everyones differeing viewpoints we can all be friends after the election no matter who wins.

Despite how things may be going in Washington and the rest of the world I scincerly desire that all of you can be safe and happy during the upcoming holiday season.

I also pray that God will grant our law makers and leaders the wisdom nessesary to protect and guide us in the coming years ahead.





Ps: Again Thank You all so much for the interesting debates.

Thank you for your comment here, I apprciate, altho i do not agree with most of the letter you recieived from your friend, i will defend with my life their right o type what they did, why you may ask, very simple, this is America where people can agree to disagree, but all disagree without concenr of beingthrown in Jail for their views

I also hope you have a Happy and Joyous Holiday Season 2008

And if NOTHING else comes out of tonight, all the TV Ads, Radio Ads ect ARE FINAL DONE AND GONE for 2 years anyway (til then ext Mid term electionsi n 2010) thanksfor your contributions to this thread

[mkemse]

some of the results are in, since Obama has started to announce who will be on his Economic Team and work on the Issues we face now with the Economy, since he started and finished his annocments last week, the stock mark over that period of time asi understand it went up 1,500 points this has never happenend before in that short a period a time and Sen. Joe LIberman and even Sen Lindsey Grahman have both said "He selections and appoitments were as close to being exact or perfect as they could be" which means to me he knows what he is doing ans had a good head on his shoulders and has choosesen his Economic Advisers well
Let's wee what ha does next
It was also mention on CNN today (Nov 28) that 58% of the public nowbelieve and feel hewill keep us safer the McCain would have
Seems to to be chaging for the better and he isn't een in office yet, even Obama said "Til Jan 20, we still only have one President at a time"
I am beingi mpressed witrh in Transition moves and annoucements so far

[denuseri]

All we can do is hope.

I am sure the media and general public will give him all the credit as well as the blame (abiet softened becuase of his party affiliation) for everything that occurs under his adminsitration just as they have for all his predecessors.

Clinton took credit for the upswing in the economy that was started before he was in office too, though as I understand it outside of minor stock fluctuations cuased by having the tresury department F with the value of the dollar; the market truely turns on much more long term instigations instituted from a variety of sources often beyound the direct power of any president.

Unfortunately most of the economic proposals I have heard Obama make have been all too simular to those introduced by FDR, which as history shows had little if any benifical effect for getting us out of the great drepression compared to our involvment in WW2. (which would not work today due to the way the military industrial support system functions)

[mkemse]

All we can do is hope.

I am sure the media and general public will give him all the credit as well as the blame (abiet softened becuase of his party affiliation) for everything that occurs under his adminsitration just as they have for all his predecessors.

Clinton took credit for the upswing in the economy that was started before he was in office too, though as I understand it outside of minor stock fluctuations cuased by having the tresury department F with the value of the dollar; the market truely turns on much more long term instigations instituted from a variety of sources often beyound the direct power of any president.

Unfortunately most of the economic proposals I have heard Obama make have been all too simular to those introduced by FDR, which as history shows had little if any benifical effect for getting us out of the great drepression compared to our involvment in WW2. (which would not work today due to the way the military industrial support system functions)

Yes, but if they work successfully who cares where they originated

And as far as other issues go with him as he enter office in Jan I love the JFK quote he has used

"Never Negotiate Out Of Fear
But Never Fear To Negotiate"

something that Bush never would did or would do

As someone said, i believe it was former Sen. James Baker "There are times,
when even if you do not want to, you have to sit down with your Enemies and Negotiate"

To bad Bush did not follow this advice, he had the chance and simply refused to

[denuseri]

"Yes, but if they work successfully who cares where they originated" by mkemse

The programs FDR established didnt work successfully the first time around what makes you think they are going to work again?

I wish more politicians would actually study history then they might not keep trying to make the same mistakes.

Also what does your dislike of the previous organization have to do with this at all?

We are pretty much stuck with Obama now aren't we.

Now that he is elected, I hope he finds the wisdom to lead effectivly as opposed to only amassing enough power to solitify his tenure and or ruin the country in the proccess as allmost half of the voteing population fears.

[mkemse]

"Yes, but if they work successfully who cares where they originated" by mkemse

The programs FDR established didnt work successfully the first time around what makes you think they are going to work again?

I wish more politicians would actually study history then they might not keep trying to make the same mistakes.

Also what does your dislike of the previous organization have to do with this at all?

We are pretty much stuck with Obama now aren't we.

Now that he is elected, I hope he finds the wisdom to lead effectivly as opposed to only amassing enough power to solitify his tenure and or ruin the country in the proccess as allmost half of the voteing population fears.

I i am still very much with Obama, I can't wait til Jan 20, i was reply to those who critizised the fact that he has used "insiders" to set up his Economic Plan ect
All I was sayting is that if his plans work, and hopefully they will, who cares where they came from, what difference does it make who come up with plans he may use, if they work that is what is most important, sorry ifi was not clear
btw as I understand it, this will be the first Adminstraioin n years if not the first in History that has 2 Consitutional Scholars in the White Houes, Obama and Binden, coreect me if this is wrong

[denuseri]

I fail to see how using a plan that failed in the past or was ineffectual is going to work now without a change of some kind having taken place that would alter the conditions of the economy.

My guess is that they will have to formulate the standards of which ever plan they do eventually come up with the realities of thier parties influence as opposed to the realities of the actual economic situation.

Constitutional Scholars?, oh my that is rich, and it is relevant how? Its going to change something about politics? I seriously doubt it.

I too was initially with Obama before he showed his true colors.

But I shouldn't have expected much he is afterall a politician to begin with.

[mkemse]

I fail to see how using a plan that failed in the past or was ineffectual is going to work now without a change of some kind having taken place that would alter the conditions of the economy.

My guess is that they will have to formulate the standards of which ever plan they do eventually come up with the realities of thier parties influence as opposed to the realities of the actual economic situation.

C
onstitutional Scholars?, oh my that is rich, and it is relevant how? Its going to change something about politics? I seriously doubt it.

I too was initially with Obama before he showed his true colors.

But I shouldn't have expected much he is afterall a politician to begin with.

Yes he is ,but as I hace said let's give him a chance he has 8 years of Garbadge and Mess to clean up

A Consitutional Scholar to make sure that Bush's Law WAter Boardingv ect do not continue they I presume would know what is Constitutional and what isn't, with Bush it made no difference he did what he wanted to

After 8 years of Busg Obama still to me desrves a chace to show what he WILL do not what he can do, what he will do is what will determine his true term in office
If we do not like him in 2012 we replace him
By Constitional Scholar I mean maybe for once we will have a President and VP who actual function within the Law, within the Constitution rather then just doing it "their way"

[denuseri]

You seem to have several presumtions that the current administration somehow opperated further outside the law than any of its predesessaors or making more mistakes. Yet I don't see any impeachment proceedings forthcomming and other than the ussual rumors of such during his term I dont believe thier was sufficient merit to wiegh any unlike some of our former presidents who so clearly did break the law and eaither resigned or wiggeled out from under impeachment.

It is the Surpreme Court that will make any Constitutional judgments.

As for garbage, some would argue that Obama is just going to take the two steps forward one back analogy to the next step.

It is like a tug of war over power in our country, and very many people are getting sick of no real progress being made, while at the same time a few of us are starting to realize the two sides are still only pulling on the rope so they can stay in the field and in the game, lest we come down from the stands and replace them.

[mkemse]

You seem to have several presumtions that the current administration somehow opperated further outside the law than any of its predesessaors or making more mistakes. Yet I don't see any impeachment proceedings forthcomming and other than the ussual rumors of such during his term I dont believe thier was sufficient merit to wiegh any unlike some of our former presidents who so clearly did break the law and eaither resigned or wiggeled out from under impeachment.

It is the Surpreme Court that will make any Constitutional judgments.

As for garbage, some would argue that Obama is just going to take the two steps forward one back analogy to the next step.

It is like a tug of war over power in our country, and very many people are getting sick of no real progress being made, while at the same time a few of us are starting to realize the two sides are still only pulling on the rope so they can stay in the field and in the game, lest we come down from the stands and replace them.

They were going to start Impeachment Proceeding but it was to close to the Nov election for it make any difference they said if they procceded by the time all wassaid and done one way or the other Bush would have been gonefrom office
I know it is the Supremem Court, but I believe that Biden and Obama both being ConsituionalLayerswhich neither Bush or Cheney are havea better grasp of what is with in the Contitutioon and what isn't. they i both havedegrees as I understand it in Constitutional Law which neither our current Prsident or VP do

Constitutional law attorneys are well versed with the law and the application of court decisions that interpret the Constitution and its amendments in areas such as affirmative action and discrimination; freedom of speech, press, and religion; search and seizure protections; eminent domain; voting rights; prisoners' rights; freedom of information; and grand jury proceedings. If you feel your Constitutional rights have been violated (whether or not you are criminal defendant) or you've been accused of violating someone's Constitutional rights, use the form on this page to find a Constitutional law attorney that's best for you and your legal situation.

Obama is a Consitutional Layer there are question if Biden is
Neither Bush or Cheney are, neither Bush or Cheney are Lawyers at all, at leasr Biden and Obama are lawyers
Thishelps interpret the Consitution and dcsionsm ade by the supremem court and Constitutional Layers are taught and trained to now only know he Constitution but to know and Interpret how Suprmem Court Decsions effect the Consitution, what is legal, what is not legal withinthe document
Both Obama and Biden have a much beeter understandong of The Constitution according to what I have heard then Bush or Cheny because both have law degree in Contitutional Law

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

The programs FDR established didnt work successfully the first time around what makes you think they are going to work again?

I wish more politicians would actually study history then they might not keep trying to make the same mistakes.

A

A minority of economists feel that FDR's programs extended the depression, a majority of economists feel that his programs stopped the slide and started the U.S economy back in the right direction. (Robert J Samuelson, The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics)

Most of the criticism of FDR's policies come from the far left and the far right, so by my admittedly simple analysis that means it was probably about right.

[denuseri]

Thats funny the majority of college history textbooks state that it was our entry into WW2 with the full comitment of our industrial capacity that actually brought us out of the depression. (Something that won't very likely happen in this day and age) They also stated the ineffectiveness of the many programs instituted by FDR.

If Obama really wanted to unify his party he would have at least offered the VP to Clinton.

If he was truely serious about reaching accross the aisle he would have offered McCain and Palin cabinet positions.

Instead he chose a watchdog that said he had no leadship potential and was naive during the primaries.

Of course a move like that however popular it would have been with the people as a whole would alienate his ideological base and required far bigger balls than his wife or democratic handelers would ever let him have.

[mkemse]

Based on their differences Palin would not exisists in an Obama Adm, McCain might make it, but Palin and Obama are to far different to co exist in the same Adm.
Palin to m is far more Consercative then McCain is

[denuseri]

So what if she is, I am sure she is for America and would work well, far more so then Hillary who would and still harbors much resentment.

Misdirect all you want, it doenst change that he lacks the boldness and or capability to be such a leader that he could truely bring the country together.

[mkemse]

Maybe but he won the Electoral College vote by a 3-1 margin and 52% of the Popular Vote, someone wanted him in Office

[mkemse]

So what if she is, I am sure she is for America and would work well, far more so then Hillary who would and still harbors much resentment.

Misdirect all you want, it doenst change that he lacks the boldness and or capability to be such a leader that he could truely bring the country together.

How do you know he lacks the Boldness or Capabiltiy to be a good leader, he hasn't been in Office yet, they accused JFK of the same
And he certainly can't be ANY worse then the last eight years

It may also be noted the George Bush is the ONLY Presient in US History to enter Office with a Criminal Record, granite, it is a was a MinorOffensive, but none the less a Criminal Record which he pleased guilty to