A question of methods

[Pearlgem]

extreme? what does that really mean?
I really have to agree with you- it is up to the persons involved. then again, it is possible to get someone who wants to please you to do things they wouldn't normally do.....

Now there are as lisais mine said people who will go above and beyond what is required of them.
To me that is just plain stupidity, if you want to do something that is sure to do you unwanted harm, emotionally or physically then I would have to ask why are you an idiot?
I have done questionable things, have attempted questionable things, but I always know the risks, and I am fully prepared to deal with the consequences. I won't go beyond what I know I can't do.

I sometimes cannot understand how others would enjoy certain types of play, but I at least try.

It all comes down to each his own really, and as long as that is what YOU and the other person wants, as long as YOU know the implications of that type of play, and as long as YOU are completely fine with it, then I don't see it as being abuse.

We all do things that at times may damage something, be it scars on skin, becoming ill, or emotionally breaking, but that is up to the individual to take care of themselves and to know and be prepared for the risks involved.
What's fine for me may not be for you, and vice versa, but I won't lecture you on how it's gross, evil, nasty or wrong.

But I think you just did, cadence. Surely a great many subs who 'want to please will do things they wouldn't normally do'? Why do you assume that must be 'idiotic', 'stupid' and 'harmful'? It may be, but must it be? You will not be the only one who takes these sorts of risks carefully, I'm sure. I most certainly am driven to go beyond the bounds of what I would choose if I could (romantically?) choose my own domination, but thank goodness it's in the hands of another whom I trust to take me beyond myself but not to fundamentally harm me. I read of practices on here every day that are just not for me but I have learned not to react with disgust or horror - I just shut up, it's not my kink.

I think any abuse probably has to be deliberate - the Dom/me is a wannabe, is criminally lacking in knowledge, s/he knows but just doesn't care how badly the sub reacts or s/he refuses to acknowledge refusal. I think subs can abuse Doms by not telling them the truth about themselves. I don't believe abuse is anything to do with extreme play per se.

[cadence]

But I think you just did, cadence. Surely a great many subs who 'want to please will do things they wouldn't normally do'? Why do you assume that must be 'idiotic', 'stupid' and 'harmful'? It may be, but must it be? You will not be the only one who takes these sorts of risks carefully, I'm sure. I most certainly am driven to go beyond the bounds of what I would choose if I could (romantically?) choose my own domination, but thank goodness it's in the hands of another whom I trust to take me beyond myself but not to fundamentally harm me. I read of practices on here every day that are just not for me but I have learned not to react with disgust or horror - I just shut up, it's not my kink.

You're right, that is a hypocritcal way to say something, and a bit too blunt. But I am referring to those submissives who blindly do whatever it is they are told. They blindly believe thier Dominant won't harm them because they feel because they are submissive and the other is Dominant that things will be fine.
I wasn't refering to pushing a limit or boundry that is scary but doable.

I myself am guilty of attempting things that I was asked to do, that could have had potential dangers, and yes I would declare that as stupid. I am fully accountable for myself really and I won't actually do something that I know is not for me, I won't do it because he said so and he wants it.

It's okay to state the safe, sane and consenual ways to do things, and to advise others that some things we do can do permanent damage.
I find that there are some submissives who clearly think that because the Dominant said it was okay, that it will be okay.
A submissive should do something because they consent to try it, not because someone else told them to.

[tessa]

I think any abuse probably has to be deliberate - the Dom/me is a wannabe, is criminally lacking in knowledge, s/he knows but just doesn't care how badly the sub reacts or s/he refuses to acknowledge refusal. I think subs can abuse Doms by not telling them the truth about themselves. I don't believe abuse is anything to do with extreme play per se.

Excellently stated, especially the deliberate and refusal aspects. Those are the blanks I couldn't fill in for myself. Thank you.

A submissive should do something because they consent to try it, not because someone else told them to.

Exactly that as well. Keeps the "idiot" factor, as it were, completely at bay.

[jeanne]

I think subs can abuse Doms by not telling them the truth about themselves.

Wow. That's got to be in the top 10 smartest things I've read on the forums. In fact, I think I'll start a thread about it. I'd love to hear others thoughts.