Quote Originally Posted by steel1sh View Post
My point is that NO ONE knows what they would do in a given situation unless that specific situation occurs. It's easy to step up and be righteous when you're not the one faced with such choices.
we owe it to our history to at least act like we have learned something from it. if we do not challenge our government at every threat to our liberties, whether it affects us directly or not, we will find ourselves serving a government that thinks it knows what is best for us even if we do not. liberty must be defined that it can be grasped, but it should never be defined by the needs of the moment. government should be for the needs of the people, not for the people to serve the needs of government.

your argument depends on the acceptance that an emotional response is the best response- that relying on outrage or anger or desperation is a suitable justification for any action. we are more than a bundle of emotions; we have a soul that lets us aspire to be better than we are and certainly better than our enemies.

waterboarding, sleep deprivation and so on are torments, not torture. i have no problem with them. others obviously do. but there can not be a carte blanche allowance for the government or its representatives to do as they please in order to protect society because we can never be sure where it will end.