Education... where is it these days?

[kalitat]

IDCrewDawg: "That is your definition and yours alone. It is not how I nor my slave define our relationship. Again, hence the reason your idea is faulted from the very beginning."


So LW's opinions are to be faulted because they do not match yours? They may not match mine either but to me, that does not make them faulted, only different. In this case there is no "right" and "wrong". That in and of itself is the beauty of a relationship as they are all unique and dependent many factors.

[fetishdj]

IDCrewDawg: "That is your definition and yours alone. It is not how I nor my slave define our relationship. Again, hence the reason your idea is faulted from the very beginning."


So LW's opinions are to be faulted because they do not match yours? They may not match mine either but to me, that does not make them faulted, only different. In this case there is no "right" and "wrong". That in and of itself is the beauty of a relationship as they are all unique and dependent many factors.

I think the point he is trying to make is not that anyones' opinions are faulty but rather that they are merely that - opinions. I think he is trying to say that any one person's opinions on any aspect of BDSM cannot be taken as definitive because there is no 'one true way'. Everyones' opinions are valid because BDSM as a lifestyle is not something like a science where there are hard and fast answers to every question (and even in science there are no hard and fast answers, there is always differing opinions and debate) but a community of people with different backgrounds, experiences and opinions whose only common ground, in many cases, is adherence to this lifestyle.

[kalitat]

That is the point I was trying to make, but worded much more eloquently. Thank you.

[Ozme52]

I think the point he is trying to make is not that anyones' opinions are faulty but rather that they are merely that - opinions. I think he is trying to say that any one person's opinions on any aspect of BDSM cannot be taken as definitive because there is no 'one true way'. Everyones' opinions are valid because BDSM as a lifestyle is not something like a science where there are hard and fast answers to every question (and even in science there are no hard and fast answers, there is always differing opinions and debate) but a community of people with different backgrounds, experiences and opinions whose only common ground, in many cases, is adherence to this lifestyle.

Right.

[Ozme52]

IDCrewDawg: "That is your definition and yours alone. It is not how I nor my slave define our relationship. Again, hence the reason your idea is faulted from the very beginning."


So LW's opinions are to be faulted because they do not match yours? They may not match mine either but to me, that does not make them faulted, only different. In this case there is no "right" and "wrong". That in and of itself is the beauty of a relationship as they are all unique and dependent many factors.

The fault, imo, is that LW faults all of us first for not agreeing with his opinion. Your logic is fallacious because the order of posting lends no priority to who is opining and who is claiming fault. LW gives us a "hard and fast" set of definitions and defends them as correct. That means he espouses them as truth, not opionion, and that means Dawg's statement of fault is in fact, correct. Now I personally don't agree with much that Dawg espouses, but there is rarely an arguement because he is clearly professing his opinions and not proposing a set of truths to be universally adopted.

My very first arguments with Sir Russell and others, (mostly resolved now) all revolve around their offering up such definitions and professing them as absolute and irrefutable... all of which left me "outside" of the lifestyle.

First come the titles and labels, next come your kinks. What will happen if someone says your particular kink (whatever it might be) is out of bounds, too dangerous, or not to be "permitted" by good kinksters everywhere... because invariably, that comes next.

[The Lord Winter]

The fault, imo, is that LW faults all of us first for not agreeing with his opinion. Your logic is fallacious because the order of posting lends no priority to who is opining and who is claiming fault. LW gives us a "hard and fast" set of definitions and defends them as correct. That means he espouses them as truth, not opionion, and that means Dawg's statement of fault is in fact, correct. Now I personally don't agree with much that Dawg espouses, but there is rarely an arguement because he is clearly professing his opinions and not proposing a set of truths to be universally adopted.

My very first arguments with Sir Russell and others, (mostly resolved now) all revolve around their offering up such definitions and professing them as absolute and irrefutable... all of which left me "outside" of the lifestyle.

First come the titles and labels, next come your kinks. What will happen if someone says your particular kink (whatever it might be) is out of bounds, too dangerous, or not to be "permitted" by good kinksters everywhere... because invariably, that comes next.

Oz, perhaps you should read my original post very carefully. I clearly stated in said post that I was questioning the lack of organized education on the site. Granted, I used examples, but others on the board made the discussion into what it is, a debate upon definitions, by questioning my examples specifically, and attempting to shoot down the entire notion of ANY education based upon a handful of examples that I myself chose to use instead of looking at the broader picture that I painted with my carefully chosen words.

As for the notion of difficulty in a consensus that you referred to earlier... I'll gladly concede that it WILL be difficult. I'll also counter that with the point that no thorough consensus is ever reached without difficulty. It requires much time, thought, effort, and discussion. As to the potential impossibility of it? Things are only impossible because we choose to believe them to be.

The definitions themselves, of course I'm going to defend my own beliefs. Would you do any less?

As for fault, the only thing I'm faulting anyone here for is being complacent, and not giving more back to the community by attempting to take a greater role in an already great site.

[Ozme52]

....

[_ID_]

IDCrewDawg: "That is your definition and yours alone. It is not how I nor my slave define our relationship. Again, hence the reason your idea is faulted from the very beginning."


So LW's opinions are to be faulted because they do not match yours? They may not match mine either but to me, that does not make them faulted, only different. In this case there is no "right" and "wrong". That in and of itself is the beauty of a relationship as they are all unique and dependent many factors.

Not his opinions. His idea of making definitions to go by, so that new people can be educated. As you pointed out, everyone's relationship is unique, and that is what I was trying to convey to him. It is the very reason his notion is faulted, not his opinion.