Quote Originally Posted by cheeseburger
JackBNimble, you are taking what was a very simple statement and clouding it up beyond recognition. Was legal slavery practiced in a large percentage of the country at some point in the past? (after 1790 or whatever?) The answer is yes; end of story. If you are arguing that there never were slaves, (and thus there is no one to compensate), you will have to wait until someone rewrites the history books.

Granted, you are probably right on this. However, one thing still confuses me. You agree there was some wrongdoing on the part of the American Government in endorsing slavery, or allowing its practice. You say financial compensation is innapropriate. What then should 'we' do? If the answer is nothing, then again I disagree with that attitude. If it isn't, what do you propose 'we' do? My 'plan' for repaying the affected parties is in my first or second post here, I won't bore you with it again.

One thing people have evaded directly talking about is the idea of apologizing. This technically is not what the board is about, but I would be very interested in knowing others opinions on this.
Ok, lets take it one step at a time.

No, I don't agree that legal slavery was practiced by anything approaching a large percentage of the country. By no means is it the end of the story. Here are some numbers that support my point.

Prior to and during the Civil War, the great majority of the U.S. population was located in the northern states, where slavery did not exist. In 1860, the total population of the U.S. states where slavery was outlawed was about 19.5 million. The free population of the South was 7.5 million.
Let us take the small minority of Americans living today who had ancestors living in the south. Chances are, those ancestors were not slave owners. Of whites living in the South at that time, only one out of four owned slaves. Only a tiny minority of Americans, therefore, had direct ancestors who were slave owners. At the time of the Civil War, less than 7% of the "white" population of the United States were slave owners. Even if we accepted that every white Southerner was in some way responsible for slavery this would still mean that the vast majority, 68% were still not responsible.

Next, do I agree that there was some wrong-doing by the United States government. This poses an interesting question. At what point does the government become legally responsible and therefore liable for the practices of it's citizens? [As a sidebar, I suspect Isreal would like an answer to this question with respect to Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia and several other governments]
I would say that if you viewed this as a civil lawsuit against a single slaveowner, then potentially there might have been a case 150 years ago. The statute of limitations has probably run out now though. In addition, unfortunately, The doctrine of “sovereign immunity” essentially holds that the United States government cannot be sued without its consent.

But lets take some more specific questions into mind. You state that you agree reparations should be paid, so then let me ask, by whom?

The U.S. government is a government "by the people, for the people" and not an individual or a corporation. In order for it to pay reparation it would be required to tax some individuals. That being the case, who should pay??

I have a friend who recently became a U.S. citizen. He came to this country from Australia, where he was incidentally an Olympic athlete who won a bronze medal in the pole vault. Certainly as an Australian he never supported slavery, but he is "white". Does he have to pay?? What about my friend who's parents came here from Mexico? She's a U.S. citizen and was born here, but clearly neither she nor her family ever benefited or supported slavery. Does she have to pay??

My own family came to the United States from Ireland and Germany in the late 1800's. My grandmother was born in New York City in 1901. As immigrants from Ireland and Germany at that time they never took part in or benefited from slavery. Do I have to pay??

The point is that it becomes a ridiculous argument. Where would the burden of proof lie? On each person to prove that they weren't responsible for slavery and wouldn't have to pay? And realistically speaking, wouldn't this create a cottage industry of people who could provide effectively "forged" documents to prove such was the case (I mean really, how many of us have documentation that shows where their family has been going back almost 10 generations?)

No, the reality is that slavery and the displacement of the Native American tribes are akin to the "original sins" of the United States, much as the treatment of the Irish people is a similar issue for the people of the U.K. or the Inquisition for Roman Catholics. They're part of history. Not a pretty part, but not something that can be fixed or cured either. Whether we're talking about people of African decent, Mexican decent, Chinese decent...etc, in the end, we're all citizens of the United States of America now. If ever there was a time for people to put aside their "hyphenated origin" and pull together as one people, as citizens of one country, certainly now is the time.