Does the Haiti earthquake prove that there is no god?

[13'sbadkitty]

the main reason i have opted out of religion is because of the this is the proof of God stuff and that is the same reason i opted out of atheism for the this is the proof of no god stuff. i have so many meaningful experiences and moments in my life that aren't exactly on my fun to have had happen list and they end up being on my thats how i know there is a God list. the essence of being human to me is to wonder and ponder and try to find for ones self is there or isn't there a God and what does that mean to me? rather than what do i think that means to you...sorry couldn't resist my own 2 cents being thrown in.

[Thorne]

I stopped believing when the only answer I could get to my questions was, "You have to have faith." I found I had no faith, not without evidence, and I could find no evidence. The older I've gotten and the more I've learned, the less evidence I find for the existence of any kind of supernatural being, be it the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God or any other.

IF there is a god out there, it does not seem to have any meaningful interaction with us here on Earth, and in fact doesn't seem to have any interaction at all. Everything we learn about nature proceeds exactly as our science says it should if there were no gods. And no one, in all the history of humanity, has ever been able to present verifiable evidence of any such interaction. It's all anecdotes and interpretations.

If you want to show that God exists, just show some evidence, which can be tested and verified. Maybe all those who have died in Haiti were non-Christians? Or maybe they were all atheists? Or perhaps they were all Christians, taken from the scene so they wouldn't have to suffer the aftereffects? Could it be that God only killed all the greedy, evil, criminals?

But history shows us that the killings in these disasters, whether man-made or "acts of God", are quite homogeneous. Certainly the poor tend to die in greater numbers than the rich, but there are more poor people than rich, and they tend to live in riskier environments, so that's not really meaningful.

It's quite true that, IF there is a God, we can not understand his reasons for doing anything. He is so far above us that our meager minds cannot comprehend him. But that does not make him worthy of our worship and adoration, especially if his morality is so far removed from our own. We cannot know anything about him, cannot know anything about his plans for us, either now or after death. And if his plan for the universe is set, what makes us think he will alter it just because we ask?

So until we can see uncontrovertible evidence of such a god, or any god (and by that, I mean something akin to a burning bush in the middle of Times Square doing a live televised interview with Barbara Walters!) I'll have to continue with my unbelief.

Unless I get struck by lightning!

[Saheli]

I stopped believing when the only answer I could get to my questions was, "You have to have faith." I found I had no faith, not without evidence, and I could find no evidence. The older I've gotten and the more I've learned, the less evidence I find for the existence of any kind of supernatural being, be it the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God or any other.

IF there is a god out there, it does not seem to have any meaningful interaction with us here on Earth, and in fact doesn't seem to have any interaction at all. Everything we learn about nature proceeds exactly as our science says it should if there were no gods. And no one, in all the history of humanity, has ever been able to present verifiable evidence of any such interaction. It's all anecdotes and interpretations.

If you want to show that God exists, just show some evidence, which can be tested and verified. Maybe all those who have died in Haiti were non-Christians? Or maybe they were all atheists? Or perhaps they were all Christians, taken from the scene so they wouldn't have to suffer the aftereffects? Could it be that God only killed all the greedy, evil, criminals?

But history shows us that the killings in these disasters, whether man-made or "acts of God", are quite homogeneous. Certainly the poor tend to die in greater numbers than the rich, but there are more poor people than rich, and they tend to live in riskier environments, so that's not really meaningful.

It's quite true that, IF there is a God, we can not understand his reasons for doing anything. He is so far above us that our meager minds cannot comprehend him. But that does not make him worthy of our worship and adoration, especially if his morality is so far removed from our own. We cannot know anything about him, cannot know anything about his plans for us, either now or after death. And if his plan for the universe is set, what makes us think he will alter it just because we ask?

So until we can see uncontrovertible evidence of such a god, or any god (and by that, I mean something akin to a burning bush in the middle of Times Square doing a live televised interview with Barbara Walters!) I'll have to continue with my unbelief.

Unless I get struck by lightning!

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything. I am just saying how I feel; I realize it isn't extremely popular. I saw a quote about faith once, "Faith is not believing in spite of evidence; faith is obeying in spite of consequences." To me, that means doing whatever I believe in, whether it's in God or in helping the homeless person downtown..I think more people should obey their conscience.. There is no empirical test I can give to prove God, and I don't care to try. You are entitled to your beliefs, and I don't want to interfere with that at all. There was a man once, who sought to disprove the existence of God and has said that in trying to disprove he actually ended up believing in God...seems like an interesting story, but I don't know a lot about it.

There will never be any fool-proof evidence either way; this argument will continue until the end of time. Until then we're all just wading around in our best guesses and (like you said) interpretations of the things we see and feel. I love listening to people who think differently than I do, though. It's amazing how unique we an all be.

[Thorne]

I saw a quote about faith once, "Faith is not believing in spite of evidence; faith is obeying in spite of consequences." To me, that means doing whatever I believe in, whether it's in God or in helping the homeless person downtown..I think more people should obey their conscience..

You do realize that this can also apply to murderers? A man in Kansas was just convicted of killing an abortion doctor, because he was doing what he believed in. Of course, he tried to avoid the consequences, so perhaps his faith wasn't all that strong.

There is no empirical test I can give to prove God, and I don't care to try. You are entitled to your beliefs, and I don't want to interfere with that at all.

I don't try to destroy people's faith, but I do think people have to understand their beliefs, and especially to understand how those beliefs can be twisted by leaders of organized religions. Atrocities like 9/11, or the slaughter of gays in Uganda, or the kidnapping of children in Haiti are only some of the consequences.

There will never be any fool-proof evidence either way; this argument will continue until the end of time. Until then we're all just wading around in our best guesses and (like you said) interpretations of the things we see and feel. I love listening to people who think differently than I do, though. It's amazing how unique we an all be.

I agree that there can never be fool-proof evidence to deny the existence of gods. There COULD be fool-proof evidence FOR the existence, but (conveniently) these all-powerful beings just don't seem to want to provide such evidence.

[Saheli]

You do realize that this can also apply to murderers? A man in Kansas was just convicted of killing an abortion doctor, because he was doing what he believed in. Of course, he tried to avoid the consequences, so perhaps his faith wasn't all that strong.

I see what you mean. I don't mean that everyone should follow their conscience without any boundaries. I think that's dangerous; you pointed out a very good reason why we need boundaries. I think that we should listen to our conscience and do all we feel we should with respect to laws and the basic rights of people. The man who killed the abortion doctor may claim that he was doing what he believed in, and maybe so...but to claim Christ in that murder is ridiculous, since the Bible prohibits Christians from not only murdering, but taking revenge as well. So as far as murderers are concerned, murder is against the law; laws should always provide boundaries to what we do if we are going to be decent citizens.

I don't try to destroy people's faith, but I do think people have to understand their beliefs, and especially to understand how those beliefs can be twisted by leaders of organized religions. Atrocities like 9/11, or the slaughter of gays in Uganda, or the kidnapping of children in Haiti are only some of the consequences.

I completely agree. I think that religious leaders who capitalize on natural disasters or other atrocities so that they can 'explain' how people who suffered somehow deserved it and if only everyone could be more like whoever is doing the condeming then these things wouldn't happen are completely evil. I think that is one of the absolute worst things anyone who subscribes to any religion can do.