Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[Lion]

Btw, how much do you suppose health care costs would go down by eliminating frivilous law suits, and how exactly, like Thorne said, would you go about getting rid of them?

[DuncanONeil]

Btw, how much do you suppose health care costs would go down by eliminating frivilous law suits, and how exactly, like Thorne said, would you go about getting rid of them?

I have wonder a bit about that. A quick look provided no quick answer. The statistics are all over the place, and do not always include hard numbers. Although I found a reported 60% of cases dropped but even that has a cost of $18,000 per case. 90% of cases that go to trial are in favor of the defendant with an average cost of $100,000.
"According to the American Medical Association, defensive medicine increases health systems costs by between $84 and $151 billion each year" An incomplete rendering of potential case is in excess of 1,000,000, that would come to about $47 billion per year. Plus the savings on "Defensive Medicine". Resulting in between $131 to $198 billion per year at the low end.

[Lion]

I have wonder a bit about that. A quick look provided no quick answer. The statistics are all over the place, and do not always include hard numbers. Although I found a reported 60% of cases dropped but even that has a cost of $18,000 per case. 90% of cases that go to trial are in favor of the defendant with an average cost of $100,000.
"According to the American Medical Association, defensive medicine increases health systems costs by between $84 and $151 billion each year" An incomplete rendering of potential case is in excess of 1,000,000, that would come to about $47 billion per year. Plus the savings on "Defensive Medicine". Resulting in between $131 to $198 billion per year at the low end.

I did some reading on defensive medicine, and the estimates are quite wide, ranging from $25 billion to $200 billion a year. Taking the low number of $25 billion, it is still a considerable amount.

Tort reform, I'm assuming is to eliminate the frivilous lawsuits, but how many of those lawsuits are actually frivilous? Obama has said that this would affect health care costs by a fraction of the amount, even if so, it should be looked into.

The $47 billion you mentioned that goes into the savings, that's assuming 100% of those lawsuits have no merit. What are the most common cases of these lawsuits?


Thank you for the research, I didn't know about defensive medicine before.



Btw, previous question still stands, how would you go about tort reform? (To all, not just Duncan, and please no vague, 2-3 line response, but something that can be used for most cases)

[DuncanONeil]

Just took a look at the President's plan. Through the use of his "transparancy" mandate.
There is nothing posted other than a real pretty wish list. Not one bit of "language". Although there appears an intent to maintain the so called exchange program. Please be careful the exchange program is merely Government Insurance under another name.
If the Government says;

• What you have to cover
• What you can charge
• Has a board, under theri control, that decides what procedures are "approved"

This is Government run!

[steelish]

Just took a look at the President's plan. Through the use of his "transparancy" mandate.
There is nothing posted other than a real pretty wish list. Not one bit of "language". Although there appears an intent to maintain the so called exchange program. Please be careful the exchange program is merely Government Insurance under another name.
If the Government says;

• What you have to cover
• What you can charge
• Has a board, under theri control, that decides what procedures are "approved"

This is Government run!

There are too many ways for the government to interfere into individual's lives under the plan. I am completely against it.

[DuncanONeil]

I just found this!
“The ‘war on drugs’ has turned into a war on doctors and the legal drugs they prescribe and the suffering patients who need the drugs to attempt anything approaching a normal life,” said Kathryn Serkes, public affairs counsel for the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)

On Monday, Sept. 29, AAPS spoke at a news conference sponsored by the Pain Relief Network to announce their support for William Hurwitz, MD, of McLean, Virginia, who has been indicted, imprisoned, and had all assets seized for prescribing legal pain relief approved by the Virginia Board of Medicine.

The result of prosecutions such as those against Dr. Hurwitz and more than 30 others tracked by AAPS is that doctors are afraid to prescribe opioids, and patients can’t get the drugs they so desperately need. “Physicians are being threatened, impoverished, delicensed, and imprisoned for prescribing in good faith with the intention of relieving pain,” said Ms. Serkes. “And their patients have become the collateral damage in this trumped-up war.”

Some patients require very large doses, sometimes literally hundreds of pills in each prescription – a number that may seem alarming to people unfamiliar with current treatment standards in pain management. Other patients report that they have lied about being heroin addicts in order to get pain medication at methadone clinics.

The situation has become so critical that AAPS has issued a serious warning to doctors:

“If you’re thinking about getting into pain management using opioids as appropriate -- DON’T. Forget what you learned in medical school -- drug agents now set medical standards. Or if you do, first discuss the risks with your family.” (See www.aapsonline.org)

“If this continues, pain patients will be back in the Dark Ages of ‘pain clinics’ that basically told the patients they had to learn to ‘live with the pain’ – except possibly if they had cancer and then they wouldn’t have to live with it for very long,” said Ms. Serkes.

“Prosecutors hell-bent on targeting career-making, high-publicity cases on the backs of patients and doctors,” said Ms. Serkes. “Recent actions show prosecutors have little concern about the trail of destruction left by their actions as patients face crippling pain and gut-wrenching withdrawal.” For example, "(American Association of Physicians and Surgeons.)

[SadisticNature]

I just found this!
“The ‘war on drugs’ has turned into a war on doctors and the legal drugs they prescribe and the suffering patients who need the drugs to attempt anything approaching a normal life,” said Kathryn Serkes, public affairs counsel for the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)

On Monday, Sept. 29, AAPS spoke at a news conference sponsored by the Pain Relief Network to announce their support for William Hurwitz, MD, of McLean, Virginia, who has been indicted, imprisoned, and had all assets seized for prescribing legal pain relief approved by the Virginia Board of Medicine.

The result of prosecutions such as those against Dr. Hurwitz and more than 30 others tracked by AAPS is that doctors are afraid to prescribe opioids, and patients can’t get the drugs they so desperately need. “Physicians are being threatened, impoverished, delicensed, and imprisoned for prescribing in good faith with the intention of relieving pain,” said Ms. Serkes. “And their patients have become the collateral damage in this trumped-up war.”

Some patients require very large doses, sometimes literally hundreds of pills in each prescription – a number that may seem alarming to people unfamiliar with current treatment standards in pain management. Other patients report that they have lied about being heroin addicts in order to get pain medication at methadone clinics.

The situation has become so critical that AAPS has issued a serious warning to doctors:

“If you’re thinking about getting into pain management using opioids as appropriate -- DON’T. Forget what you learned in medical school -- drug agents now set medical standards. Or if you do, first discuss the risks with your family.” (See www.aapsonline.org)

“If this continues, pain patients will be back in the Dark Ages of ‘pain clinics’ that basically told the patients they had to learn to ‘live with the pain’ – except possibly if they had cancer and then they wouldn’t have to live with it for very long,” said Ms. Serkes.

“Prosecutors hell-bent on targeting career-making, high-publicity cases on the backs of patients and doctors,” said Ms. Serkes. “Recent actions show prosecutors have little concern about the trail of destruction left by their actions as patients face crippling pain and gut-wrenching withdrawal.” For example, "(American Association of Physicians and Surgeons.)

The US war on drugs is the single worst criminal policy in a westernized democracy in the past 30 years. I'm not surprised its sinking to new lows.