Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
I agree with denuseri, this is basically the same as asking if there is a god. Without gods there can be no heaven or hell.

But then, is the reverse true? Can you have gods without having heaven or hell?
Why - excuse me - on earth not? It is intesting that these concepts are so closely connected in people's minds, I did not expect that at all.

Pagans have Gods, but no hell, and for many, no heaven either. You simply go back and join the source you came from. Buddhists believe in reincarnation as you deserve, but no heaven or hell. Of course whether or not Buddha is a God is a moot point, perhaps? Theosophists believe in a spirit world as part of learning process before being sent back in reincarnation, I am told.

Some Christians are godloving rather than godfearing, and do not believe in hell. I was born in a culture like that, christianity the official religion that few people thought about, but if they did, there was no hell in it.

It would seem to me that, if you define heaven as a place of reward where your soul lives with the gods, then you must have a hell, a place of punishment, even if it's only a place without the gods. This seems to be the basic concept behind most religions.
Maybe you could have a heaven that you went to if deserved, and if not, you just sort of die? Actually the fragments of christianity I grew up in seemed altogether more interested in life and how to live it like a good person, than afterlife. Maybe you could call that a god without heaven or hell?

And if you have a heaven without a hell? Then it doesn't matter if there are gods or not. Regardless of what you do, you end up in the same place.
As said, Buddhists think you do not end up in the same 'place' even if there is no hell or heaven.

The gods do not regulate where you end up, necessarily. The Hindus seem to believe that they cannot, karma decides where you end up in your next reincarnation.


What about heaven and hell without gods? Well, that doesn't work! Who decides who goes where?
The Hindus would say, yourself and your karma. Except that they do not have either ;-)

I think being an atheist is easier. No gods, no heaven, no hell. Just here and now.
I know, its complicated