Equality?

[steelish]

To refresh your memory - I was talking about equal opportunity and how critically important it is that all should have equal opportunity when it comes to education. Class was mention and I loosely defined how I see class with CEOs in the top band and professionals in upper middle. You pointed out that people with poor education can be CEOs ( actually I dont think this is true for 95% iof top CEOs) and I acknowledge that but pointed out it does not hold true for the upper middle class bracket. That's a fair summary yes. So from my point of view the professional classes have been talked about and even if they were not., what are you saying... you cannot talk about them because they have not been spoken of before. Can we not introduce new points or what?

I never said we couldn't discuss economic or social classes. All I pointed out was MY interpretation of what you said. You can explain and explain...how I feel and view what you said will still be the same.

I guess no answer to that one is there. You achieved perfection.

And now you're being deliberately snarky. I am not implying that we've achieved perfection. My point is that America has equal opportunity. We cannot MAKE people view everything the same. (obviously...otherwise there would be no point in discussions or even threads like this). It doesn't matter how many regulations are in place to dictate how people should treat/view others. Until attitudes change things will be "unequal". (and the only way to change attitudes is by the example of those who are discriminated against) It doesn't matter what the discrimination is based upon, attitudes can change.

If i was a CEO and my HR manager hired an executive to bag groceries I would fire him for incompetence. I want a stable workforce not a revolving door. The executive will be looking in the jobs vacant column from day one. Come on, you are being over simplistic and unrealisitic here. And in any case, I don't think it's asking too much for a person to have a job at same similar level. Drop a rung or two on the ladder okay but crash dive to the basement no.

Oh, so what you're implying is only the lower classes sweep floors or bag groceries? A janitor in the Post Office where I work used to be in Marketing and yes, has a degree. She said she took the job because it's so hard to find employment. And in Florida, it is. Our unemployment is over 10%. The job fairs I attended had well over 2,000 job seekers vying for what was available. What is wrong with taking a job you are overqualified for? Most employers know what life is like right now and understand.

No - you are advocating executives sweep florr and if they dont then no sympathy for them.

Again, that's not what I said. America is a land of choices. You choose not to take a lower paid position because you feel your educational level is above it...so be it. That is your choice. It's not that I have no sympathy for them, but if they come along with hands held out for $$ from the government while ignoring available jobs, well then yes, I will be unsympathetic.

being foreigner I dont know what you mean here but the point of government schemes, benefits, programs is to provide a safety net for those at the bottom or most in danger of falling. The goal is to increase wealth and standards such that nobody needs the net. The Harvard graduate does not need employment programs and high paid do not need free medical care. They are not dependant but if you do not help the less fortunate then you are condemning them to their fate.

I know what the programs are for. But they've backfired. What we have now is two generations of Americans who have been raised on Welfare. People who feel that they should be able to live their life collecting what is "due" to them. These same people who drive Cadillac Escalades and wear designer clothes, yet buy their food with food stamps and get a government payout every month. Before anyone scoffs or roll their eyes at what I "think"....it's not what I "think" but what I know. I see them with my own eyes. Hell, I even have a couple of cousins who live this way.

You lost me here. What do you do in America..put the children to work making Nike shoes as soon as they are old enough to walk. The child is at school and presumably working doing school work. I never had chores and see no reason with they will not turn out like me.

So you never did chores around the house when you were a kid to get a weekly allowance? While I was growing up, the usual chores (helping with dishes, helping keep the house clean, etc.) didn't result in allowance. However, taking initiative and pulling weeds from the vegetable garden, or mowing the lawn (once I reached 12 years old) gained me $5 weekly. I liked having my own money so much I got a paper route at 13. I'd like to think I would have been that way without learning the value of working hard to earn money, but who knows...

Yes I agree education is the way. The problem is if you have the man who is 30 with the 3 year old son if you wait for the education route you are basically skipping a generation and condemning that man. And as I understand it education for the poor mans son would be dependant on scholarships and we know how you hate dependency don't we

Ooooo. More snarkiness.
Many of the available scholarships have to be earned. Even the financial aid ones have to be earned through grades.

BTW - Your analogy is lost on me (the 30yo man with the 3yo child) because there are children of all ages in school. It's not as if an entire generation is lost because all kids are 3yo at the same time. A generation might be skipped only in his family. Again...he chose to have a child at the age of 27 (that's when I had mine). How does he get condemned? His child needs no scholarship for basic education, it's free. His child has 12 years in which to apply himself in school and get grades good enough to qualify for a financial aid scholarship. Not only that, but in Florida, he (the man) can apply for Florida Prepaid College Tuition and lock in the college tuition rates while his child is 3, pay monthly into the plan, then when his child graduates high school college will be prepaid. He (or his child) won't have to pay the tuition rates that will be charged when his child is college aged.