Ten Commandments

[denuseri]

And if you check the demographic religious afiliations of the people involved in taking good care of the planet you will also find the same people.

My only issue with Thone's aproach is his use of stereotypes and insults to attempt to make his point, my little godless pure science thing was manily to show him how it looks when the shoe is on the other foot, if he didnt use sophism in his argument...I wouldnt eaither.

In any case, this whole godless-scientist stereotype is about as far from the truth as most stereotypes. You will find as many believers in the average science faculty as in the arts departments next door; all Thorne was saying is that if you're a believer and a scientist (like me), you believe the facts first, and if the facts disagree with your religion, you accept that your religion needs to be adapted.

That is how it should be in my opinion as well. I think both types of stereotypes are bull. Not all "christians are fundamentaly fundamentalist in their fundamentals" as some people apear to liken them to.

Richard Dawkins has attracted a fair amount of criticism from scientists for promoting the idea that atheism is the only "scientific" viewpoint.

I can't help it if Mr. Dawkins is an asshole.

I wish him the best of luck, but I think he is missing a large part of the "human" equation by denial or by ignorance when he attempts to promote such viewpoints as vampantly as he does.

There are plenty of us who find the world all the more spiritually awe-inspiring because we believe in all the fabulous scientific story of its creation from nothing in a cloud of fire, and the growth of living things from primal molecules to glorious complexity by their own simple efforts to survive better than the next being. As far as I can see, most Pagans are scientifically educated: perhaps that's why we're drawn to creeds that value matter as well as spirit.

Yesh...we have achieved agreement of sorts (does a lil dance) As I pointed out previously in this very thread earlier and in every other thread started to bash on religion in the past that Ive seen. (except I dont believe the "pagans" have a monopoly on anything when it comes to scientificly orientated educations)

But like it or not, Thorne was right: one of the main strands of resistance to conservation comes from fundamentalists who say that (a) God made the world for Man (sic) to use, so nobody should tell us not to, and (b) the Rapture is due any time now, so there is no future to conserve resources for. You couldn't make these people up.

There is a big difference between the greedy scumbags in charge of multinational corperations and other "a" holes who twists the dogma of a religion or takes it out of context for the purpose of finacial gain and the common believer who was tuaght that God wants makind to not only hold dominion, but wise dominion and be good stewards of and live in fellowship with the earth.

[Thorne]

Not all "christians are fundamentaly fundamentalist in their fundamentals" as some people apear to liken them to.

I agree with you, and I've said so many times. Though there are times when I would like to give some of them a good swift kick in the 'fundament.'

I can't help it if Mr. Dawkins is an asshole.

I wish him the best of luck, but I think he is missing a large part of the "human" equation by denial or by ignorance when he attempts to promote such viewpoints as vampantly as he does.

It might surprise you to know that I feel the same way about him. I think what he's doing is important, but I'm not too fond of the way he goes about it.

There is a big difference between the greedy scumbags in charge of multinational corperations and other "a" holes who twists the dogma of a religion or takes it out of context for the purpose of finacial gain and the common believer who was tuaght that God wants makind to not only hold dominion, but wise dominion and be good stewards of and live in fellowship with the earth.

Once again I have to agree with you, to a point. But despite not having any financial interest, some of those "common believers" can be just as rabid and "a-hole-ish" as the religious leaders and corporate officers. (Interestingly, now that you've brought them together in this context, it's surprising how often religious leaders behave in exactly the same manner as the heads of multinational corporations!) Over the past few years there has been a campaign around the world to promote atheism by placing signs on buses and billboards. The same places you would see signs promoting Christianity. Guess which signs get defaced or destroyed? And by those same "common believers" who want to "live in fellowship with the earth."