Truth

[thir]

We can only know what we can see, hear, taste, touch, smell.

That is not even true for animals, who can learn and remember.

[rissaya]

A matter of convenience would be to accept such speculation as truth, so we can remain comfortably in our chair. To learn the truth requires leaving our chair, climbing that wall and looking to see what's on the other side. Knowledge leads to truth, but it doesn't just drop into your lap, or your pool. You have to seek it out.

Yet, to be absolutely sure that something is true, you need something that is already known to be true, to support it. My point is that there are walls beyond the wall you first climb, and then more walls beyond that, and so on. I can search for knowledge, but when can I, if I ever can, be sure that what I have gathered around me is true?

It's like trying to reach a destination by traveling half the remaining distance each day. The longer you travel, the closer you get, but you can never truly arrive.

Absolute truth is the destination. The path is laid with broken perspectives and subjective truths. And you never reach the end. Something like Tantalus reaching for the apple that always moves beyond his reach.

Oh, and while you're at it, don't forget to get the poor SOB out of the pool!

[Thorne]

Yet, to be absolutely sure that something is true, you need something that is already known to be true, to support it. My point is that there are walls beyond the wall you first climb, and then more walls beyond that, and so on. I can search for knowledge, but when can I, if I ever can, be sure that what I have gathered around me is true?

This is exactly the point I was making. We can never be absolutely sure. The most we can say is that, as far as we know this is true. If something comes along at some future date which contradicts what we "knew" to be true, our knowledge is wrong and must be changed or discarded.

Absolute truth is the destination. The path is laid with broken perspectives and subjective truths. And you never reach the end. Something like Tantalus reaching for the apple that always moves beyond his reach.

Exactly.

[Thorne]

That is not even true for animals, who can learn and remember.

Learn and remember what? How? Is knowledge poured into us from some vast, invisible reservoir? Can we know that fire is hot without actually feeling it at least once? Can we know what salt tastes like without actually tasting it? I would love to hear some examples of something we, or animals, can know without first having some initial sensual contact.

ALL of our knowledge is ultimately based on our five senses. We observe our surroundings through them and must base our understanding of those surroundings upon them. Yes, we can speculate about some things which we cannot actually sense, and we can draw conclusions based upon those speculations. But until we actually see evidence for, or against, those speculations and conclusions we cannot know whether they are true or false.