[QUOTE=Thorne;875438]And what of us who have no gods to have relationships with? Are we non-human?

Not any less human than someone who lacks a relationship with their parents.

[QUOTE=Thorne;875438]Substitute parental/familial guidance for 'divine guidance' and I'm with you here

Umm no can do, there are greater things than the pedictability of men's egos.

[QUOTE=Thorne;875438]A bit tricky, here. Children are born with certain physical, emotional and mental abilities or disabilities which will profoundly affect their lives, yes, but the social acceptance or rejection of those abilities and disabilities will play a far greater role. I have an uncle who was born with muscular dystrophy who was not allowed to go to public school because of his handicap. Today society sees children like this as challenges to be integrated into our society rather than as pariahs to be hidden away. Nothing is predestined..

I disagree as I do not subscribe to tabla rosa. Many things are beyond an individual's ability to achieve - so we are at least "pre-destined" to not be certain things. And the one thing we know about this world...there is no such thing as "always" and "never."


[QUOTE=Thorne;875438]I was a child once and I have raised two children and have never seen any evidence of "divine guidance".

Faith is belief in the absence of proof. "love for our children" may be that divine guidance you have overlooked. I think that it is the "human" qualities that we attempt to apply to the "divine" is the core reason why people stop looking.

[QUOTE=Thorne;875438]This is the one that so many people fear, because this one points to the almost complete lack of control we really have over our lives. And these random events are the ones that will generally bring out either the best or the worst in people. But they don't always have to be surprises. If you live near the ocean you have to be aware that you could get smacked pretty good by a hurricane. If you prepare for it you can limit some of the randomness and get through it. This will help you get through the random event with the least amount of problems. Moving away from the ocean makes it even better. In either event, though, preparation gives you at least some control over a random event.[

Hurricanes are the factor of water temperature and wind conditions and follow seasonal cycles...but I get your point and would add that "apparent randomness" is simply our inability to see the connectivity of all things