Quote Originally Posted by leo9 View Post
And I believe that the odds that there are is so high as to be vitually certainty. But since neither of us can expect to offer evidence for our beliefs - I don't expect miracles, and you can't prove a negative - they remain beliefs without proof, whether expressed sematically or mathematically.
While true that one cannot prove a negative, there is a tremendous amount of evidence that the universe has evolved along natural, predictable lines without any evidence of supernatural intervention. And every year we learn more and more about how the universe works, how matter and energy interact. All evidence of a completely natural order. Mankind has been searching for the gods for at least 10,000 years without finding one solid piece of evidence for them. In fact, the longer we have looked the lower our expectations of what the gods actually do have become. At one time the gods were able to wield lightning, storms, wind and all manner of potent, deadly forces in their efforts to destroy mankind. Now, it seems, they are relegated to forming images of Jesus on burritos, or the Virgin Mary in bird droppings. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Lack of belief is agnosticism, the refusal to commit to any belief system. "There are no gods" isn't lack of belief, it's an assertion of belief, belief in atheism.
While I will agree that agnosticism is a "refusal to commit to any belief system" I don't know if that could be considered the same as not believing. One can still believe in God or gods without committing to a particular religion.

But I see that it's my statement that "There are no gods" is what's bugging you, so I'll amend myself. There are probably no gods. Just like there are probably no canals on Mars, and there are probably no invisible unicorns in my back yard. I wish there were, as they could eat the grass and save me having to run the lawnmower.

But I can see this is a sensitive subject for you, so I'll let it go.
I don't find it a sensitive subject. I find it very interesting, in fact. The only thing that bothers me even a little bit is that we've gone from discussing whether or not there is evidence for the supernatural to arguments over terminology. Like many other believers, you can't, or won't, accept the possibility that anyone can exist without some form of belief system. You seem to be able to accept as facts that there are no leprechauns, there are no unicorns, there are no magical fairies drifting along in the garden, there is no Easter bunny. But let someone declare that there are no gods and that goes from a statement of fact to a statement of belief? Seems just a touch hypocritical to me.