Least and most religious nations

[Thorne]

No its an argument that not everone's structure is exactly the same...thats how evolution works...smh..I am not making this up...go talk to any doctor of medicine or any real scientist of any caliber and they will tell you the same thing.

I don't think you're making it up, denuseri. I'm just saying that strictly equating function with structure is too simplistic.

The foot is designed to preform a large number of functions Thorne, not just the one you mentioned, yes it can kick things and run and walk etc...it cant flap and make you fly though...to do that it would have to have a different overall structure!

And I'm saying that the brain is also designed to perform many functions.

So are carbon atoms...which when pressure is apllied to for a long enough duration and tempurature just so happen to become really dense and become diamond...the atomic structure however is still there yet becuase its arranged differently diamond has different aplications compared to its less dense forms just like any other structure does when its altered..it too takes on different characteristics.

Yes, the arrangement of the carbon atoms changes, forming a more dense crystalline structure when compressed to form diamonds, not so dense when forming coal. But the atoms themselves do not change! What I'm saying is that the activity of the brain is similar, in that the basic structure remains the same, but the overall interaction between structures, the electro-chemical signals which the brain uses, can vary greatly, and thereby give varying results. Function being influenced by structure, but not absolutely defined by it.

[denuseri]

Yes the brain is also...like most organs of the body made do a wide variety of things...duh. That doesnt change the fact that the structures of the brain are what they are and that they determine what functions if any one is capable of.

And its the doctors and scientists, both east and west and everywhere inbetween who are saying that structure does indeed equal function, plain and simple: the complicated part is figuring out every nuiance and function of every structure or structual variation and how it exactly works in relationship to its various functions....a task which is a long duanting one but they make more and more proccess in every day.

Open any modern day science school book book if you dont believe me.

In the case of acupuncture and most eastrn medicines, the question was approached in the exact opposite manner from the west...european doctors studied such things from observations of structures first...its what early gross anatomy is all about...where as in the east they looked at function first and experiemneted (much of the time through trial and error just like in the west) and found that when A is done to the body, it alleviated or corrected whatever B was in as minimally an envasive manner as possible. Thankfully the medical communities of both east and west have begun to embrace each others ways of thinking instead of clinging to pig headed euro-centrism and come to formally recognize and study in more detial the other way of thinking in equal measure. A fact that is easily recognized if one were to open any modern day medical textbook.

As for carbon...when the arangments between the atoms changed...so did the stucture...stucture is completely dependent upon such arrangments to begin with...its basic science 101...its why the lump of coal's function is so very different from the diamonds. Yes the little atoms themselves are still all carbon,,, but like little bricks in a house, how they are arranged determines the difference between there being a plain wall, a window or door or a thick castle wall etc etc.

[Thorne]

As for carbon...when the arangments between the atoms changed...so did the stucture...stucture is completely dependent upon such arrangments to begin with...its basic science 101...its why the lump of coal's function is so very different from the diamonds. Yes the little atoms themselves are still all carbon,,, but like little bricks in a house, how they are arranged determines the difference between there being a plain wall, a window or door or a thick castle wall etc etc.

So the structure of the bricks does not force the function of the building. Bricks can serve many different functions while maintaining their structure. And the structure of a building does not force its function, either. The same structure can serve many different functions.

I agree that scientists are studying the brain, learning how structure and function are interrelated. I just haven't seen anything that defines specific functions based upon specific structures. There are many generalities, and a hell of a lot left to learn.

found that when A is done to the body, it alleviated or corrected whatever B

And yet when scientists test these claims they find that, while A will sometimes alleviate B, sometimes it will do nothing, and sometimes it will affect C. They also find that sometimes when D is done to the body, B will seem to be alleviated, despite the fact that the acupuncturists claim something completely different. The placebo effect is well documented, and nothing I've seen regarding acupuncture, or many other alternative medicines and procedures, shows any greater effects than the placebo. Sure, poking a needle into the body is going to induce the body to produce endorphins, which alleviate pain. No big surprise there. But there is, as yet, no credible, verifiable evidence to show that acupuncture does any more than that. And it certainly does not perform as claimed by its proponents.

[denuseri]

Several billion people in the east and more than a just a few from the west myself included would beg to differ.

Such methods have been used successfully for thousands of years and have been recognized by their governemnts and our own along with most of the wests medical peer group to the point of being added to our textbooks as valid alternatives to seek as being just as valid as conventinoal medicine from the west...go figure.

[Thorne]

The numbers of people who believe in it, or the length of time that they have, are irrelevant to whether or not they actually do anything real. Billions have believed in astrology for even longer times, yet it's still garbage. As for textbooks, after watching what Texas has been doing for the last couple of years, I'm beginning to doubt them myself. I challenge you to show me one real, scientific study, published in a real, scientific journal, which shows that these alternatives are as valid as conventional medicine. Everything I've seen has shown just the opposite.