Ozme said: "But I can give you several examples of control that definitely isn't submission. I give up control to airline pilots and bus drivers. I give up control to dentists and doctors (for the length of the visit at least.) I give up control to my masseuse... and I've even given some machines total control over me, elevators come to mind. But none of that qualifies as submission... "

Quote Originally Posted by denuseri View Post
And yet you have "submitted" to giving up control in those instances as well as many others...
I do not see that as submission, rather availing yourself of the services of people and machines. In our technically (backwards) societies this is unavoidable.

is it the same kind of "submission" given by the slave on her knees before her Master?
Of course it isnt. But it is a type of submission none the less.[/COLOR][/B]
I can't see these two things as having anything to with each other..

But the question arose because a number of people claim that bottoms (if there is such an animal) have no submission in then whatsoever.

I mean, how is that known?? Most of the people answering with such clarity do not claim to be bottoms or tops

Granted, we all give our opinions and so on, but I am surprised at the absolute belief shown here and, meaning no disrespect to anyone, it seems to me to have more to do with trying to make life more simple than it is in order to make things easier, than with acutal experience.