The Human Rights of Child Killers.

[Thorne]

Or else you do not have any other way.

Not being able to think of a way out of your problems does NOT justify performing criminal acts which cause OTHER people problems.

I am baffled by this in some ways - don't you realize that 'the criminals' are all of us? We could ALL commit crime, depending on circumstances. What's with all this self-rightousness?

To a certain extent you're right, anyone could commit a crime, given the right circumstances. Most of us wouldn't commit a violent crime, at least, unless the circumstances were dire. But the large majority of those sent to prison commit crimes of opportunity! They see the chance to get something they want and they take it, with no regard for the consequences. They generally only show remorse when they are caught.

But there is so much other crime which is at least understandable - provocation, need, stupid temptation, thoughtlesness - the criminals are mostly ordinary people who do something wrong. Apart from the hard core ones.

It's hard to think of a provocation to commit a violent crime. Someone calls you a name so you shoot him? Sorry! Not understandable to me. Need, yes. I can understand, if not necessarily condone, a parent stealing food or money to feed her children. But if that same parent attacks an innocent victim my understanding goes right out the window.

Ever watch those bait car programs, where the cops leave a car unlocked with the keys inside? I'm generally fascinated, repulsed, angry, in varying combinations, by the attitudes of those stealing the cars. They KNOW they're doing wrong (many will make a conscious effort to prevent leaving fingerprints), yet they think they are somehow justified in stealing someone else's property - until they get caught! THEN they're remorseful. If someone is old enough to actually drive a car and still hasn't learned that it's NOT okay to steal, I have to wonder if perhaps prison might be the best thing to teach them.

[thir]

Not being able to think of a way out of your problems does NOT justify performing criminal acts which cause OTHER people problems.

I disagree. let me try to explain, bear with me a bit.
In the very beginning people lived of the land directly, and it was up to them to get their food. The big difference is that now you have to have a job, which is a completely different thing, and depending on completely different conditions. In short, we have lost the direct line to food, and are now depending on things beyond our control. If the jobs aren't there, they aren't. It happens. We cannot just go further away to get what we need. This is simplified, of course, but maybe, for the sake of the argument I am trying to make, you can go along with it for now.

So, if you have a hungry child or a sick parent, what is most important: to uphold the law, or protect and feed your family?

To a certain extent you're right, anyone could commit a crime, given the right circumstances. Most of us wouldn't commit a violent crime, at least, unless the circumstances were dire. But the large majority of those sent to prison commit crimes of opportunity! They see the chance to get something they want and they take it, with no regard for the consequences. They generally only show remorse when they are caught.

Remorse is a concept that I cannot get my head around much..you pay for your crime and hope to learn better in the future, that is about it.

But yes, we live in a society where our main function is to buy, and so many temptations are placed before us and much prestige is placed on things, and we
are stupid enough to react just as the sellers want in having to have the last new gadget - whatever cost to budget or the world in general.

In my head it is understandable and at the same time stupid if people fall into temptation, but it only means that we are human, not Us the saved and Them the terrible criminals.

It's hard to think of a provocation to commit a violent crime. Someone calls you a name so you shoot him? Sorry! Not understandable to me.

What I was thinking of was need as in food, clothes, shelter, health care.

But I can think of reasons to commit violence that seems acceptable to people, revenge and mob mentality first and foremost, if you feel you have not got justice by the courts, or if you cannot wait for the system to convict somebody.

People seem to think it ok to kill a suspected child molester without the detal of finding out if that person is actually guilty, this has happened several times here in UK.

And I am thinking of the bad 60's where lynchings on a sunday aftenoon seems to have been a general entertainment with hundreds of spectators with lunch boxes and so on. Gay bashing seems to be among us in many societies.

Are these people - people? Or are they crazy by the thousands? I guess that is something I ask myself.

Need, yes. I can understand, if not necessarily condone, a parent stealing food or money to feed her children. But if that same parent attacks an innocent victim my understanding goes right out the window.

Same here, except I can condone the stealing if it really is neccesary.

Ever watch those bait car programs, where the cops leave a car unlocked with the keys inside?

No-? What on earth is that? Tempting idiots to commmit crimes and go to jail for amusements??

I'm generally fascinated, repulsed, angry, in varying combinations, by the attitudes of those stealing the cars. They KNOW they're doing wrong (many will make a conscious effort to prevent leaving fingerprints), yet they think they are somehow justified in stealing someone else's property - until they get caught! THEN they're remorseful. If someone is old enough to actually drive a car and still hasn't learned that it's NOT okay to steal, I have to wonder if perhaps prison might be the best thing to teach them.

Yes, that is certainly different.
But I can see no excuse for tempting people to commit crimes.

[Thorne]

So, if you have a hungry child or a sick parent, what is most important: to uphold the law, or protect and feed your family?

As I stated above, I can understand this kind of problem, and I can sympathize with the parent. I find it hard to believe there isn't some other way to get out from under, though. Something which doesn't involve sticking a gun in some poor store clerk's face. And, while I can sympathize, how does one mentally justify taking the food from someone else's kids?

But yes, we live in a society where our main function is to buy, and so many temptations are placed before us and much prestige is placed on things, and we are stupid enough to react just as the sellers want in having to have the last new gadget - whatever cost to budget or the world in general.

Again, this may explain some of the strains on people, but it does nothing to justify crime. People don't seem to learn to handle their finances anymore, seeming to believe it all right to buy the latest gadgets, then claiming they can't feed their kids to justify committing a crime.

But I can think of reasons to commit violence that seems acceptable to people, revenge and mob mentality first and foremost, if you feel you have not got justice by the courts, or if you cannot wait for the system to convict somebody.

Yes, these seem acceptable to SOME people. Other than self-defense, including defense of my property or defense of someone unable to defend themself, I can't think of a good reason to injure or kill someone.

People seem to think it ok to kill a suspected child molester without the detal of finding out if that person is actually guilty, this has happened several times here in UK.

Which is what the judicial system is supposed to prevent. But we are seeing more and more instances of suspects being tried in the newspapers or on the TV, and seemingly found guilty by acclamation before they ever appear in court. When people see these pseudo-celebrities making a mockery of the justice system and getting plenty of money for it, it's understandable that they will follow that same trail. Not acceptable, but understandable.

No-? What on earth is that? Tempting idiots to commmit crimes and go to jail for amusements??
But I can see no excuse for tempting people to commit crimes.

I think the entertainment value of it was incidental at first. The purpose was to place a tempting target in an area where a lot of cars had been stolen and try to catch the thieves in the act. They use hidden cameras in the cars to record the suspects and they can shut the car down completely by remote, locking the suspects inside until released by officers.

I don't know who decided to make a TV show about it. And as I said above, it can be fascinating to see how the criminal mind works, sometimes. But yeah, using it as entertainment is somewhat iffy. Of course, there's the idea that perhaps it will deter someone from falling into that trap in the future.

What's really remarkable, though, is that the suspects do have to sign a release to allow the network to show their faces on camera. So many of them are so eager for their 15 minutes of fame, I guess, that they willingly sign those releases. THAT'S the part that drives me nuts!