Quote Originally Posted by ksst View Post
I guess for me, civilized doesn't mean good, it just means big and more complexly organized than a tribe of hunter/gatherers.
That was pretty much the definition I came up with last time the question arose. "Civilised" is used as a moral description meaning "better behaved," but that's because it's the "civilised" people using it. Same way "urbane" (from a word original meaning "from the town") is used to mean "refined, sophisticated,", because the townies wrote the books.

On the other hand, civilisations support (among other specialised types) thinkers, who can be racist, warmongering and repressive, but on average, over time, historically seem to converge towards such things as equality and respect for life; and being a part of a civilisation, rather than a hunter-gatherer tribe, means that their ideas get spread widely. So though on the face of it there's nothing morally good about the practical functions of civilisation, it does seem to work out for the better in the long run.