Originally Posted by MMI
There can't possibly be any secular aspects of Christmas or Easter to celebrate, unless the secular have adopted and adapted them from the religious celebrations they are. If the non-religious have adopted a religious festival, they cannot be heard to complain that it has been forced down their throat.
Originally Posted by Thorne
They can, and do, make that claim. If the Christians can adapt their holy days from the pagan celebrations that came before them, there's no reason that non-Christians, can't adapt, too. Gift giving, family dinners, sports, Santa Clause, all are secular aspects of the holidays, though gift giving is derived from religious traditions, too. You can't really complain if people choose to give gifts to friends and family, and have meals with them, without bothering with the religious trappings.
No reason at all. I accept that athists give gifts and have family dinners, go to football matches and so on at Christmas. But, having appropriated a religious festival for their secular activities at Christmastime, the non-religious cannot claim that it is religion that is imposing itself on their activities, and that, I believe, is the nub of your complaints.
Originally Posted by MMI
Saint Valentine's Day has been associated with the celebration of love since Chaucer's time at least (per wikipedia), and there is no suggestion that it was introduced by mediaeval businesses to boost sales.
Originally Posted by Thorne
You're probably right, but the modern form of celebration is NOT derived from any religious celebration.
Big business created their own Saint Valentine, and decided to celebrate him on February 14th, which by pure co-incidence only, happens to be the same day that the martyr Valentinus is reverenced by the Catholic Church?
Originally Posted by MMI
You say you have no problem with business making money out of religious festivals.
Originally Posted by Thorne
Again, it's not the religious festival that they are making money on, but the more secular trappings which have grown around the religions.
The nativity scenes you find in stores, on TV, pictured in advertisements etc are all secular?
What about the significance of holly, mistletoe and the colours red and green? Nothing to do with religion, I take it?
The pictures on Christmas cards such as the Magi, Mother and Child, angels, the Christchild … these too are secular?
The quotations from Christmas Carols or the Holy Bible: also secular?
And the broken body of Jesus on the Cross displayed on Easter Cards must be the most secular of all