Male discrimination?

[lucy]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!
Besides: I'm glad we don't have "stand your ground" laws here, because I firmly believe that the government should have and should always retain the monopoly on violence. Everything else opens doors to anarchy, and we all know who loses first in anarchy. Might be different in the US, but around here I like to keep it that way.
Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

[Punish_her]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!
Besides: I'm glad we don't have "stand your ground" laws here, because I firmly believe that the government should have and should always retain the monopoly on violence. Everything else opens doors to anarchy, and we all know who loses first in anarchy. Might be different in the US, but around here I like to keep it that way.
Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

BOOM point proven. when men get attacked it's because they were drunk, or they were too testosterone fueled or they must all be gang bangers, it's completely there fault. however, you should be allowed to do whatever you want and if you get attacked it's far worse than when I get attacked. [I] was at a bar last year, and I was attacked. Some guy thought I was trying to sleep with his girlfriend so he decided to take a pitcher and slam it into my face as hard as he could. Thankfully, it was plastic, so it just broke apart and left me with a huge bruise. If it had been glass, I'd be blind in one eye with a few dozen stitches. I suppose that's my fault right?
but no, when a woman walks home by herself at 2 am, that's not her negligence putting herself in danger at all.
that mindset is disgusting

[lucy]

I'm sorry you've been attacked. I got beaten down and mugged, too. At 9 pm on the campus. I don't call that discrimination, coz it could have happened to anyone. It's a question of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

but no, when a woman walks home by herself at 2 am, that's not her negligence putting herself in danger at all.

Yes. Unfortunately, apparently a woman can't walk home alone at two am. Because some testosterone-laden fuckwads make exactly that impossible. It shouldn't be negligence if she does and gets into troubles. That is exactly what I was talking about in my first post.

that mindset is disgusting

Yes, you are so right here: The mindset that a woman being assaulted/raped/whatever because she dared to walk home on her own at two am (something most men wouldn't think twice about) is negligent is indeed fucking disgusting. Very, very disgusting.

[thir]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!

I agree, I do not either. I would also like to be able to go where I want, when I want, in peace. The question is what to do when we can't??

A good start might be a zero tolerance to any violence, even if it be at night and people 'should have known better'. Maybe also, in spite of all the bad statistics, we should stop seeing women as victims. That would be my main reason for not liking the ide of the hotel floor for women.

Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

This is a point that needs to be kept in mind, or we leave half of humanity between a rock (the agressors) and a hard place (hidden victims.)

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

Actually, although it started with a Danish hotel, it got international in the second post, because looking more into it, I realized that so many other countries, European as well as in US and Canada, also have these women-only floors.

US is not the world, true, but I find it quite natural that we all give examples, including statistics, from our own home turf.

[lucy]

I agree, I do not either. I would also like to be able to go where I want, when I want, in peace. The question is what to do when we can't??

Do it anyway and reclaim the streets. Just like with slut walks. Maybe we should go out and walk this streets and let the idiots know that those streets aren't theirs.

A good start might be a zero tolerance to any violence, even if it be at night and people 'should have known better'.

I don't know whether that still happens in other countries. But I don't see that courts her can afford to "minimize" the guilt of a perpetrator with the "she's guilty too because she was wearing a short skirt"-approach (insert here any dumbass excuse for an asshole committing a crime). Any judge pulling such a shit would have been a judge for the longest time in a matter of minutes.
If anything, I think we're moving too much into the wrong direction, i.e. trying to establish full security by way of law. That will never be possible and if it is possible at all, it will cost us most or all of our freedom. I'd rather get beaten down and mugged than have that.

Maybe also, in spite of all the bad statistics, we should stop seeing women as victims. That would be my main reason for not liking the ide of the hotel floor for women.

Yep. That's a good reason. Unfortunately, it's often easier to achieve a political goal if you can claim "victim-status", one of the many reasons why being a victim has quite some appeal.

Actually, although it started with a Danish hotel, it got international in the second post, because looking more into it, I realized that so many other countries, European as well as in US and Canada, also have these women-only floors.
US is not the world, true, but I find it quite natural that we all give examples, including statistics, from our own home turf.

Right. I don't mind people citing statistics and giving examples from their home turf. I do it myself all the time. It's understandable, since our home turf is what we know best.
What pisses me off, though, is when some guy expect me to read up his home country's statistics. I might be married to an American, but that doesn't mean I've bookmarked the DOJ's homepage. Nor do I want to compare our crime stats with American's, because they're simply not comparable.

As for the example given in this thread; I fully agree with StrictMaster. It's a privately owned company. If they want to have a floor reserved to women, they should have the freedom to do that. If someone doesn't like it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hotels in Copenhagen to choose from.
There's a whole hotel reserved for women only in Zurich. That's totally ok and none of my business. What I don't like as much is that there surely would be an outcry by the same women who hail the idea of a women-only hotel if someone opened a men-only hotel. That's the point where feminists get annoying.

[thir]

Do it anyway and reclaim the streets. Just like with slut walks. Maybe we should go out and walk this streets and let the idiots know that those streets aren't theirs.

Depending on where you live - or how many you are walking together..

I don't know whether that still happens in other countries. But I don't see that courts her can afford to "minimize" the guilt of a perpetrator with the "she's guilty too because she was wearing a short skirt"-approach (insert here any dumbass excuse for an asshole committing a crime). Any judge pulling such a shit would have been a judge for the longest time in a matter of minutes.

I do not know if it happens so much nowaday in courts - ? It used to for sure. But I did not mean legally, I meant people's opinions often go in the direction of 'if you know it might be dangerous, why do it?'

If anything, I think we're moving too much into the wrong direction, i.e. trying to establish full security by way of law. That will never be possible and if it is possible at all, it will cost us most or all of our freedom. I'd rather get beaten down and mugged than have that.

I agree - we seem to think (in our part of the world) that one can ensure safety, and if safety isn't there, someone must be to blame! But though there are many things we can do, life can never be safe.

As for the example given in this thread; I fully agree with StrictMaster. It's a privately owned company. If they want to have a floor reserved to women, they should have the freedom to do that. If someone doesn't like it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hotels in Copenhagen to choose from.

In DK the board of equality are trying to take more power than they should have - in fact, they should be cancelled! But they cannot decide what the hotel should do. The courts have to decide if the hotel broke the laws against prejudice, and my guess is they would say no problem.

There's a whole hotel reserved for women only in Zurich. That's totally ok and none of my business. What I don't like as much is that there surely would be an outcry by the same women who hail the idea of a women-only hotel if someone opened a men-only hotel. That's the point where feminists get annoying.

Well, our feminists apparently felt the men were discriminated against here..

[Punish_her]

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

i'm not putting anything in your mouth that didn't come from it first. when men get atttacked, it's their own fault, when women get attacked, it's a great injustice. that's your view