Pastor Says

[Thorne]

but nobody says that because Mao, Stalin, and Hitler didn'tgo to church every nonbeliever is a psychopath.

You're kidding me, right? RIGHT???

Read some comments whenever a story mentions atheism, especially when they do something worthwhile. Read some of the comments written about, and to, Jessica Ahlquist by supposedly good Christians. There are a shitload of people out there who really do think that atheists are immoral psychopaths who secretly work for Satan.

Yes, people have been killed in the name of Christ. Yes, people have been killed in the name of Muhammad. NO, no people have ever been killed in the name of atheism. Because there is nothing to kill over! Atheism is, simply, a lack of belief in gods! No dogma, no supernatural beings, no rules and regulations. JUST NO BELIEF! Which, according to an awful lot of "good" theists, makes me worse than Hitler, or Stalin. In fact, about the only ones who are less accepted than atheists are rapists! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know how tolerant Christians are.

[Punish_her]

You're kidding me, right? RIGHT???

Read some comments whenever a story mentions atheism, especially when they do something worthwhile. Read some of the comments written about, and to, Jessica Ahlquist by supposedly good Christians. There are a shitload of people out there who really do think that atheists are immoral psychopaths who secretly work for Satan.

Yes, people have been killed in the name of Christ. Yes, people have been killed in the name of Muhammad. NO, no people have ever been killed in the name of atheism. Because there is nothing to kill over! Atheism is, simply, a lack of belief in gods! No dogma, no supernatural beings, no rules and regulations. JUST NO BELIEF! Which, according to an awful lot of "good" theists, makes me worse than Hitler, or Stalin. In fact, about the only ones who are less accepted than atheists are rapists! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know how tolerant Christians are.

oh please, he's been quoted as saying "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."
hitler saw religion as a propaganda tool due to the First Reich's mutually-beneifical relationship with the Catholic Church in the MediEval time. Hitler was sooooo pro-religion, he systematically went about reducing or removing christian influence in nazi germany, such as replacing christian references in christmas carols with pagan references.
and you're argument is inherently flawed. you state that religion is a cause for misery and pain and suffering because people have been killed in the name of god(s) and that nobody has been killed by aetheists, but that is mere equivocation. the real point you would need to prove is that ATHEISM WORKS AS A DETERRENT TO VIOLENCE. you can't say that 2+2=5 by proving that 2+2 does not equal 3

[Thorne]

oh please, he's been quoted as saying "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."

And how is that different from religion? Like Stalin and Mao, that's simply replacing worship of a god with worship of the state, or the leaders. It's still religion, just repackaged.

hitler saw religion as a propaganda tool

As do almost all leaders, even now. It's a built in mind-control mechanism, inflicted upon children by their own parents from birth. Just tweak it a little, make sure that your god sees your country as the promised land, your people as His chosen people, and you have an easy way to control your population. Virtually every religion teaches that it is necessary to be submissive to your god, to your leaders, to your "betters". Blend the religion with patriotism and you can keep vast numbers of people subservient to your will. Even when you are demonstrably insane!

due to the First Reich's mutually-beneifical relationship with the Catholic Church in the MediEval time. Hitler was sooooo pro-religion, he systematically went about reducing or removing christian influence in nazi germany, such as replacing christian references in christmas carols with pagan references.

Yes, the Nazis created the Reich Church, using it to supplant the Christian churches, both Catholic and Protestant. Doesn't matter, though. It was still a religious organization, and used the trappings of religion to influence the people of Germany. As I stated above, several times, when you can convince people that thinking for themselves is a bad thing, you don't have to worry about them rebelling against you. Virtually every religion I'm familiar with preaches that irrational belief is far superior to rational thinking.

and you're argument is inherently flawed. you state that religion is a cause for misery and pain and suffering because people have been killed in the name of god(s)

Not exactly. People are killed for many reasons, mostly for greed. Religion makes it easier for leaders to justify those killings. If you're killing your neighbor so that the local Baron can confiscate his land, it's easier to justify it by claiming it's God's will.

and that nobody has been killed by aetheists,

No, again. Atheists are just as capable of killing as anyone else. I said that no one has ever been killed in the NAME of atheism. You don't have huge armies marching across the land killing for no gods.

the real point you would need to prove is that ATHEISM WORKS AS A DETERRENT TO VIOLENCE.

Why would I have to do that? Atheism is NOT a belief system! It's not something that can be used to justify any other position. It's simply, and solely, a lack of belief in gods! ANY gods! Those who want to commit violence, whether theist or atheist, will find a reason to do it. The difference is that the theist will claim he's doing his god's will. And too many other theists will agree with him!

you can't say that 2+2=5 by proving that 2+2 does not equal 3

It is the theist who is claiming that 2+2=5, not the atheist. We don't always have to add +1 for our invisible friend in the sky, after all!

Ultimately, it is people who commit violent, criminal acts, regardless of faith. As an atheist, I cannot justify such acts as being God's will. I cannot claim that mumbling about my 'sins' in a darkened booth and saying a few prayers will absolve me of the guilt of committing those acts. I cannot say that my god wants me to shoot everyone with a crooked nose. I have to have clear, rational reasons for committing any violence. But when you denigrate clear, rational thinking; when you praise those who put aside rational thinking for a belief in an imaginary being; when you instill in children an abject fear of disobedience to this invisible being; you are creating the conditions for irrational, sectarian violence. If GOD tells you to kill everyone with a crooked nose, it would be a sin NOT to do it! If GOD tells you to make slaves of your enemy's women and children, who are you to deny Him? And, most insidiously, if GOD didn't make you rich and powerful, you MUST accept your fate, be subservient to your Masters, live in poverty and pain, so you can go to heaven someday. A heaven that no one has ever seen.

And oh, yes! God needs your money, children! Ten percent. Every week. BEFORE taxes!