Pastor Says

[Thorne]

1) Mankind has been hijacking religion and manipulating it to control and subvert the masses for as long as there have been humans walking the earth.

Not hijacking, inventing! Charlatans are constantly finding new ways to separate the flock from their money, and keep them from thinking about reality. Religion is not some object that people can bend and twist. It's a psychological tool meant to control people, and as such has been used properly by shamans since its formation.

2)...Twisting scripture to exclude and condemn...

A favorite tactic of fundamentalists. For every 10 priests reading a verse of scripture, you can get 12 different interpretations, depending on the bogeyman of the day.

Here's a picture of a guy with the verse from Leviticus tattooed on his arm. Yet it seems he ignored the verse from the very next chapter that says, "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you:" (lev19:28). As is usual, it's only the things that they don't like that scripture condemns. Everything else is just "suggestions".

3) Human beings looking to validate their own prejudices will cling to whatever is available to justifty their views. Anything is preferable to having to admit being wrong. Spiritual belief or non-belief, and what anyone does with their sex organs are personal matters that are really nobody's business.

Except that controlling such things is the easiest way to control a population. That's the whole point of religion (and politics, too), to maintain control. For the benefit of the leaders, of course, not the people.

Are we so insecure that we have to force belief and practice on each other, so we can feel better about ourselves? When will we evolve beyond that? The sooner the better.

Amen!

[Punish_her]

ironically from the devout atheist who feels compelled to discredit religion at every turn . . . a blinding flash of irony

[Thorne]

From Dictionary.com
a·men
   [ey-men, ah-men]
interjection
1.
it is so; so be it (used after a prayer, creed, or other formal statement to express solemn ratification or agreement).
adverb
2.
verily; truly.

Nothing necessarily ironic about it. I was simply agreeing with your wish:

When will we evolve beyond that? The sooner the better.

Just because the churches have appropriated the word for their own use doesn't mean that it is ONLY a religious word!

Still, it's nice to know that my efforts are appreciated.

[Punish_her]

i didnt really follow any of that buuuuuuuut
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-0...f-control.html - religion evolves because it reinforces fitness-increasing behaviors

[Thorne]

i didnt really follow any of that buuuuuuuut
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-0...f-control.html - religion evolves because it reinforces fitness-increasing behaviors

As the article notes, this is all preliminary. VERY preliminary. There are many different ideas about the usefulness of religion, or more precisely, religious-tyoe thinking. People need to be able to recognize danger. Our minds tend to see things in randomness, seeking familiar patterns, especially dangerous ones. Religions tend to use this ability of the mind to convince people that things exist, whether or not there's any evidence for those things. And many religions, the big three certainly, place a high premium on frightening believers into behaving in unnatural ways. If you are afraid for your immortal soul, you will naturally be inclined to exhibit self-control. But who places the value on these social behaviors? The same people who tell you that it would be sinful to perform such acts.

I'll wait to see where this line of exploration goes, but it wouldn't surprise me that there are many other means of achieving the same results without using religion. Rampant, mindless patriotism comes to mind, for one.

And a little googling comes up with this: a more detailed report.

Among other things, they say that "[Improved self-control] could have been caused by other confounding constructs coactivated by the religion prime, such as morality concepts or death-related concerns." And, "In a more general sense, religion may be more of a cultural construct; it could be that the idea of an omniscient god has something to do with it, but it might not be the whole story."

As I said, this might be something, or it may simply be one of many actions which could get the same results. It's still very preliminary. And I would be interested to see the results when done by someone who was not himself primed to accept religion. (Mr. Rounding is Catholic.)

In any event, the possible fact that the human mind might be predisposed to believe in fairy tales says nothing about the veracity of those tales.